I'm here on top of the local bell tower, the deer rifle loaded and ready to go.
Earlier today I thought would be a good idea to convert some HTML into HTML & CSS. It started out okay and everything was working just like it was supposed to.
Then I looked at the results with a Macintosh.
When I was younger I used to pretend I could turn into a superhero and save the world or at least save the day. There were also several hours spent living in the Star Wars universe as the pilot of the Millennium Falcon but as cool as Han Solo was, he did not have super natural powers, only the ability to make Princess Lea melt in his Wookie loving hands.
Back on planet Earth I watched as each layer of cascading style information became more and more deformed. No matter what I did to the code, nothing would right this horrible wrong.
Unless...
With a very deep focus, I tried called upon my inner demon to come forth, turn my skin green, grow biceps the size of Volkswagens, and shred any unnecessary clothing.
My blood vessels started to pulse heavily while tinny beads of sweet quickly formed at the top of my forehead, ready to turn into streams of stress. Several times I joined the right hand with the left to crack and pop the joints that were beginning to harden with each browser reload.
If I could just morph into the Incredible Hulk then all would be fine. I would take said Macintosh and smash and fold it into a titanium 'paper' airplane and hurl it ten miles away. Then I would exit the building through the wall, land on several cars parked below and make my way to Disneyland where I wouldn't need a Fast Pass to get to the front of the lines.
Alas, I did not turn green, I am still wearing all of my clothes, and the CSS layout is still laughing at me from a Powerbook that has since been turned off.
Oh, that it laughs at me.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
Ah, the wonders of developing CSS for Mac. I love acting ignorrant, as though only Windows existed. Even moreso, I love make believing 800x600 resolution in the only one in existance. Then EVERYTHING looks slick and dandy. Then, like you, reality strikes my back like an iron board.
Honestly Greg, it takes sweat, and patience. You'll get it. Trial and error. Well, mostly trial. And lots of errors.
You should go out for lunch tomorrow. ;-)
I designed my entire site sans tables, pure CSS. It was that hard to do, but it sure did look like crap in IE. I've read over at Zeldman's place that IE doesn't handle CSS properly and there are some work arounds. As far as Macs go, well, who needs CSS when you got Sherlock, right? Riiiiiiiiiiight. ;-)
I really want to avoid creating separate stylesheets for each platform but after reviewing CSS from other sites it would appear that it will be inevitable.
CSS is better in theory than it is among the various implementations held across browsers. I too was intrigued by the touted benefits of CSS, but getting my site to work across platorms and between browsers was a major pain in the ass.
It's sad, I think, that a standard evangelized as one which makes "hacks" unnecessary requires more hacks than good ol' tables. I don't think it's fair to place the blame fully on Macs, especially since MS has done its fair share of deviating from standards, but to each their own.
Hmmm, the blame was never meant to be shifted towards one platform over the other. My bad.
Hi Greg,
I am carefully trying to sidestep around the whole Mac vs Pc issue here It has gotten rather tedious—and lets face it—not very helpful.
Lets hope some idiot doesn't take your post as an invitation to start a rant.
What combination looked fine on the PC and what combination looked crap on the Mac?
Combination = browser and platform.
Note to self: make self clear.
I was trying to (float: left;) two DIVs side by side inside another DIV with another set of two DIVs (float: left) right underneath the first set.
Follow me?
This worked fine in IE-XP but IE-OSX would float the second row of DIVs right next to the first.
I finally got it to work by floating the right DIV in each row to the right. I used IE on OSX because Safari is still trying to find its inner child and didn't know what I was telling it to do.
>
Whoa! Sounds like fun... not.
Have you tried using the power of clear: [left | right | both]
to slap floats into behaving? Can work sometimes.
IE on the Mac can be a pig.
I can remember when it was the best... Aaah how times change.
Ummm, Yeah. And I'm the rocket scientist?! You people speak another language...I'll take quantum mechanics any day! Gavin, thanks so much for trying to sort out what Greg said... our condo walls can't take any more pounding.
Good subject. Greg, you're pretty much confirming my suspicions and experience: that Zeldman's takes are a bit better in theory than actual practice. Especially when you factor in the size and/or scope of the project. For instance, I'm designing a weblog for a friend right now. It's going to be about 4 master templates. Do I really want to create 40 extra hours of bug-fixing for myself by trying to make a flawless, platform-agnostic, tableless layout, with one-style sheet for all platforms? Or do I admit to myself that a few simple tables aren't going to hurt anyone, will actually make the site work in 4 version browsers, and that Verdana bold looks great small on a PC but looks like total crap on a Mac. Is killing yourself worth it in every instance, just to please the gods of markup?
I'd like to echo Blake's thoughts - I design on a PC regularly because my employer is a PC-only shop. However, I check things on my Mac at home (in IE, Moz, Opera, and, once I upgrade to Jaguar, I'll add Safari to that list). It takes patience, sweat, and, more importantly, knowing who to ask if you can't figure it out yourself. I'd like to direct your attention to The CSS-Discuss List, a veritable fount of CSS goodness. Moderated by Eric Meyer himself, this is the place to turn for assistance should you find yourself stuck on an impossible layout.
To be sure, IE has it's downsides on both platforms WRT CSS. IE5/Mac moreso than IE5.5/6/Win. But don't blame the platform. It's like blaming your car when the CD player doesn't work.
I blame my car all the time when the CD player is broken. Doesn't everyone? But really...
...It could be worse Greg. You could have two scrollbars on your web site. Sheesh.