Yesterday a Hindu chaplain was jeered by protesters while providing the opening prayer for Congress (the first ever recited by a Hindu).
They shouted "No Lord but Jesus Christ" and "There's only one true God," and used the term "abomination."
Asshats.
These people, and anyone who thinks what they did was a good idea, need to be remind of a few things.
First, the Freedom of Religion that they enjoy so much, that they seemingly take for granted, extends to all religions—it's not singular—never had been nor should it be.
Second, if you seek to squash the practice of any religion then you endanger the freedom to practice all religion. Once intolerance of one religion enters public policy then you can kiss it all goodbye.
Lastly, if you want people to join your belief system, public demonstrations of hate and exclusion are not the way and I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't think so either (see New Testament, all the words in red).
It's all about the Beatitudes morons.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
True words - Treat people with love, you'll let them experience Jesus first hand. That's kind of the essence of the Christian moral, and whilst I'm sure they did have good intentions at heart, their approach wasn't exactly the best.
Well put. If only such a sensible viewpoint were more popular.
Seems to me to be an example of why there shouldn't be a public prayer before the Senate. Mr. Jefferson, build up that wall.
I'm amazed at what causes some people take up their time with. "Let's go be disgraceful to our country, our lord, humanity, and tolerance everywhere at the capitol by spreading hate, shall we?"
(shakes head)
As a fairly hard-core Christian (I am a missionary in Africa where I teach Bible and Theology at International College of Bible and Missions) I condemn such wrong headed "protests" as strongly as possible. While I believe that some of what these people said is true, this is certainly not the way to deal with religious pluralism. Jesus said, "By this all men will know you are my disciples, if you love one another." It is sad to me, and I believe to God too, that so many Christians have missed this point.
For a local view of this same topic, check out this excellent post on Pleade the First. Prayer before government functions are bad things all around. The display listed here is just *one* reason. Anthony nails the issue on the head.
"Did he say 'cheesemakers'? Blessed are the cheesemakers?"
DAVID: I doubt these people had any good intentions. They are bullies and insecure in their faith.
I am a Christian too and I think your response is spot on. Well put.
Anytime an organization or individual trys to force feed me with the "we have the one right, just and true way to [insert issue]", they are immediately dismissed from any further consideration.
So what happens when they let an Atheist give the opening... um, speech?
> So what happens when they let an Atheist give the opening... um, speech?
Well from what I understand a man or woman representing that, uh, faith (?!) gets up says a few words and the Senate is called to order. Takes a few minutes and everyone moves on with their own happy lives.
I don't understand why this particular incident would bother you so much. There's far worse stuff going on than a few radicals yelling during a speech.
Seriously, if it's a Christian involved you really get riled up. Are you cynical or were you burned by a Christian? I don't get it?
Why are you not angered more by the religious groups killing soldiers . . the religious groups wiping out other religious groups . . . nations hell bent on wiping out religious groups . . . but three people chanting (specifically Christians - I guarantee if they were Islamic there would be no post), well hell, let's get pissed and post on that.
Well said, I couldn't agree with you more. People like that are the biggest hipocrits, trying to force their beliefs onto the masses.
Religiouse freedom is a true blessing in this country...
...And the fact that religious freedom is a contentious issue at all is a curse.
It's almost as if these people have never read the Bible and know nothing about Jesus. There is plenty of room for acceptance and freedom, even if you believe that your religion is the one true path.
> Why are you not angered more by the religious groups killing soldiers...the religious groups wiping out other religious groups...nations hell bent on wiping out religious groups...
Uh, what are you referring to here? Surely you're not comparing yesterdays actions to events in war.
> Seriously, if it's a Christian involved you really get riled up. Are you cynical or were you burned by a Christian? I don't get it?
O RLY?
> ...but three people chanting (specifically Christians - I guarantee if they were Islamic there would be no post), well hell, let's get pissed and post on that.
Well since you seem to know me so well as to make guaranteed assumptions let me return the favor. I guarantee that if this was about Islamic militants you would smother yourself in cheese sprayed from an aerosol can, wave the American flag, and light candles at your Rush Limbaugh shrine in joyful exuberance that yet another minute has been spent comparing apples to oranges, AM Radio style.
Fides Universum ... amen
Hindu Chaplain?! Sounds more like a mix of Hindu & Christian? Being a Hindu, as far I know we have temples and priests, not chapels and chaplains.
As for the incident, as long as no one blew up anything, or killed anyone, peaceful display of freedom of expression, whether good or bad, is harmless.
What I find strange is that under the umbrella of separation of church and state, the US Senate still starts with a prayer.
> Hindu Chaplain?! Sounds more like a mix of Hindu & Christian? Being a Hindu, as far I know we have temples and priests, not chapels and chaplains.
I thought that was weird to but not being Hindu I just followed the reporters example. Go ALA Manual of Style.
In the same vein as CRC ...
I'm a Christian and Greg couldn't be more correct. I'm not really sure what's happening to Christianity in America, but it's becoming twisted more and more everyday. It's disheartening.
I live in Manhattan and walk through the 42nd Street station every morning where some track-handing-out ministry preaches at me, telling me I'm going to hell. Now, don't get me wrong here, but that turns me off ... and I'm a Christian. It makes me not want to be associated with it. What's the deal America? Where is the love and acceptance that Christ freely gave?
I could go on and on, but I won't rant in the comments.
Stupid people. I don't think their intentions were good, but even so: good intentions + incredibly stupidity, arrogance, and rudeness doesn't make me feel any kinder to them.
Note Harry Reid's vapid comment at the end of the linked article. If he's nice enough to invite a Hindu clergyman to the Senate, he should also have the decency not to condescend to that faith by saying that Hindus pray to "our heavenly father," the Christian (and LDS) name for God.
You might also check out the Christian Newswire version of this story.
Greg, you're right that Jesus didn't support public hate demos, but he did support public exclusivity: see the red letters in John 14:6, said in public. modern concepts of tolerance don't fit with this, nor does the postmodern concept of truth being relative. but Jesus wasn't postmodern in his ideas, and still isn't.
I'm also a Christian missionary and I agree with most of what you said Greg but aaron above also brought up Jesus' claims the he is THE way, (not giving any other options.)
Yet, in a nation like the US, if a Christian wants the freedom of religion they need to pick their spots. An obvious PR stunt setup by Harry Reid isn't the place or time.
I love when the tech industry opines on politics. For one reason or another things always turn out, to be nice, entertaining.
A nice, well-rounded post.
I have freedom to express my religion. Yours sucks, go away. Quite the mature mentality. How many times has Jesus slapped his forehead shaking his head so far...this year?
"I don't understand why this particular incident would bother you so much. There's far worse stuff going on than a few radicals yelling during a speech."
There's ALWAYS far worse stuff. It's just that stuff like this is so petty and easy to avoid to begin with is what gets folks riled up.
Just stop the petty god whoring.
Aaron -
If you were willing to step outside of your faith bubble and objectively look at your beloved Gospel of John you'd realize John is considered historically very innacurate. Not only does it differ significantly in terms of chronology from the synoptics (the other three Gospels), but you'll also notice no where else in the NT will you find such "I am" statements.
But of course, with your blind faith and insecurities, you'll immediately dismiss such evidence as bogus and me as having not understood the true "Word" or something similar.
I respect Christianity until "followers" (I put that in quotes becasue of people like you who are so ignorantly unaware of much of their religion and its history/creation) such as yourself start spouting off ridiculous comments such as "modern concepts of tolerance don't fit with this."
So how about the new Coke Zero Cherry...pretty tasty.
NO COKE BUT CLASSIC COKE
Zach --
Let me see if I got this straight. If you take take all the stories in the bible, and look at Christ's life objectively; His whole experience here, from birth to return is all about turning the world system on its ear. If there was ever anyone who disrupted the system, it was Jesus.
If His saying, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." is bunk, essentially made up from the figment of John's imagination -- then what was the point of His birth, life, death, burial, resurrection and return in the first place?
Why go through the hassle of all that if there are many paths? Is it like a competition between saviors, and Jesus had to put out a better marketing campaign than the others?
If you're willing to step out of your own bubble, I would recommend you read, The Jesus I Never Knew, by Phillip Yancey. It's not "religious" at all, but rather a very interesting look into a Jesus figure very much unlike the "Sunday School" Jesus you seem to be accusing Aaron of ignorantly following.
As far as this post is concerned though, yes I agree with Greg. There are sadly too many asshats out there doing stupid things in the name of Christianity.
Matthew Ch. 7:1
Don't judge because you will be judged.
Matthew Ch. 17:17
Faithless and perverse generation! How much longer must I be with you? How much longer must I put up with you?
Don't bring a beach ball to a baseball game. You'll just piss off the fans. Unless you're more interested in the beach ball than the game. In that case, you've no business being at the ballpark.