After six years big business still has no idea what to do with this blog thing.
Oh, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Of course, these are the companies that should know right? I mean they've been using Trapper Keepers and Daytimers all their lives, so blogs are just like that right? A neat folder system for your mind-thoughts?
Read: We're going share notes on how we pretend to be fifteen year olds who can't stop blogging about how great our products are and how to avoid being sniffed out as a fraudlog two hours after the first post. Oh, and we're going to have a lovely salad with Pacific Northwest farmed salmon for lunch.
As someone who's been at this for years, lets answer these questions right now and maybe save some of you the horror of having to stay overnight the Sheraton Orlando.
Hire individuals who speak the native language (and I don't mean as a second language). Provide them with the full experience of what you are trying to shlep and let them write about it in a way that energizes the local population.
Rejoice?!
Oh, I mean indoctrinate the workers on the heroic qualities of your brand. Let them know that lawyers are monitoring their feeds and at the first sign of dissent, they will be sent to Gitmo's Executive Bootcamp for Re-Education. Remind them that blogging is not the road to liberty—their voice represents the brand at all times, even when they might be writing about an obsession with Lisa Frank products.
Dynamic Global Revenue Upstream says what? Here's an idea: make fantastic products and services and stop trying to control the citizen voice. It only comes back to haunt you. Always has, always will.
First, don't freak if someone says you suck. Ask them why, take notes, and try harder. Second, don't freak if someone says you rock. They didn't blog about it to get more attention or free stuff (that's always nice but we don't like it when companies try too hard).
Yeah that makes sense. Explore and talk about a very, very public medium behind closed doors (What the hell is a private networking environment anyway? Tell me they provide free t-shirts: PNE-4-EVA). That's perfect! As long as you keep doing that, you'll always need your stupid councils to discuss why the cool kids think you're an idiot. Well played, asshats.
Maybe if you spent time actually blogging and engaging the community personally, not as a corporate stooge you might learn a thing or two, but I understand it's a lot easier to get a free chicken-based lunch at a pompous council meeting than it is through a trackback.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
Classic. And I get shit from the politically correct in large law and the bar associations from my mild criticism of their timid approach to blogging.
Great stuff Greg. This line made me laugh out loud:
"I mean they've been using Trapper Keepers and Daytimers all their lives, so blogs are just like that right?"
Oh, and I enjoyed the Pacific Northwest salmon shout out as well.
If I can make one person laugh, then my butchery of words has been worth it.
> I hate to be that guy, but you mean 'dissent', not 'decent'.
No worries, I'm learning English on the fly, correcting now.
The sad result will be the multitude of corporations who latch onto this Blog Council movement (for lack of a better term) like mindless sheep. I hope the opposite comes true.
It's like the music industry all over again.
> It's like the music industry all over again
I bet the MPAA told you to say that.
Good thoughts, I'll link to it once proofread - there must be a dozen sentences with missing words and letters like "s"
I recently won a key legal battle for bloggers ... just google for "Bidzirk"
As someone who lives in the Pacific Northwest, I can say the salmon here is delicious and well worth having a lunch or conference about things you can't possibly and probably will never understand.
I'm pretty shocked Adobe's name isn't in that list. Haven't visited the site, perhaps they're on there someplace.
I liked the Trapper Keeper line, too. I think you are right on the mark.
great article, and great comments, especially: You look like you are trying to write a blog. May I help?
Is there any way we can leverage Twitter to relanguage mission-critical solutions?
And I'll take the Dungeness Crab Cake Sandwich with a Chai Spice Milk iced tea, honey.
> Good thoughts, I'll link to it once proofread - there must be a dozen sentences with missing words and letters like "s"
Well if you're going to be like that, don't bother, I have plenty of links coming in already. Your's would just get lost in the mix.
> I recently won a key legal battle for bloggers ... just google for "Bidzirk"
Wow, that's interesting. I once knew someone who owned a Buick.
> As someone who lives in the Pacific Northwest, I can say the salmon here is delicious and well worth having.
Agreed. Especially if it's been cedar planked.
One of my primary goals in life is to become a Six Sigma Black Belt Blogger.
I can predict from their use of "best practices" in the first sentence of the announcement that this will indeed be an exercise in cluelessness.
Great post.
"Your's would just get lost in the mix."
Funny stuff!
As Fake Steve has said, "Companies don't form alliances and consortia when they're winning." Different context, still correct.
As someone else from the PNW, I have to say; farmed salmon sucks. It's an ecological and gustitory disaster. Eat wild salmon, or eat no salmon at all.
While I agree the executives and leaders of most corporations and governments couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag, let alone blog in compelling ways, do they deserve any credit for trying, and or least thinking about trying to play in "your" brave new world? Or should they just say, "to hell with it", and never attempt to improve their ways, to try to be more open and responsive? I'm not involved with this council, but I imagine the people trying this do not have bad intentions. Under constant attack and afraid of losing their jobs, these corporate marketers do not have any incentive to have this conversation out in the open, subject to relentless criticism and sniping. Would you rather their conversation not occur at all?
To dismiss this effort out of hand just smells of a lack of experience with corporate brands and cultures. As depressed and frustrated as I am about it, I've learned that the corporate world moves slowly, thru deliberation, discussion and consensus, not thru revolution.
The nerve! Here in the PNW, we do not eat farmed salmon. Please correct!
> To dismiss this effort out of hand just smells of a lack of experience with corporate brands and cultures.
Kraig, corporate cultures need to understand that not everything in life is an action item. I don't need any more experience with big businesses inability to connect with their customers to know that as long as they think a committee will solve the problem, they will never really succeed.
This is blogging, not global warming. It's talking to people through a kitchen-table conversation, not creating new legislation that will help off-set tax tables in 2015. In this situation these companies are making way-more of the situation for the sake of making more of the situation and/or maybe because they like hotel food.
> As depressed and frustrated as I am about it, I've learned that the corporate world moves slowly, thru deliberation, discussion and consensus, not thru revolution.
The revolution is over. It was over the day Tim Unicorns O'Reily coined the phrase web 2.0.
> Here in the PNW, we do not eat farmed salmon.
Ever been to Idaho in January?
Ugh.
I'm so sick of hearing this meme from the "blogging experts" who haven't bothered to actually to understand the purpose or value of a group like this.
You've taken a radically cynical view (which I suppose I can understand, given the track record of big business), but you've overlooked the context. Namely, if you look at Lionel (Dell) or Sean (Microsoft), two founding members, they're doing fantastic work. They get it. If others in similar positions at similar big company can learn in a comfortable environment, who cares?
You're assuming a lot of things that simply don't seem to be true, at least not yet. Perhaps that's the sarcastic tone of the site, perhaps you're just immediately assuming nothing good happens with "corporate" people meet, I dunno. You're exhibiting your lack of understanding by saying that the answer to how to deal with multiple languages is simply to hire a person to handle that language is a pretty thin answer. For instance:
* Do languages align with cultures?
* How do you justify headcount for these extra people
* What happens if you deal with 14 languages? Do you have 14 people? What about French Canada vs. France proper? What about Mexico vs. Spain?
* If you decide not to cover a certain language/country, how do you deal with the irritation from those companies (hint: it's more than a simple one-time statement)
* Is it better to have this team be virtual, located in the markets or contained in one central location for easier collaboration and sharing amongst the team?
These are just a few things off the top of my head. There are more, but you're dismissing them as irrelevant or so easily solved that anyone who needs help is a fool.
As someone who's done actual community work at an actual big company, I sure could have used a peer group to run things past, get advice, etc. without having a constant critique like these from the blogosphere.
(I'm not associated with the Blog Council, FYI)
There is no 'Blog Council'. It is a marketing exercise run by GasPedal to promote its services. I think the 'members' are just the suckers who signed up for the seminar/conference/symposium/networking wank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi4fzvQ6I-o
> I'm so sick of hearing this meme from the "blogging experts" who haven't bothered to actually to understand the purpose or value of a group like this.
I'm so sick of late-comers who take a good thing and wrap it up in their own twelve-step program of policies and procedures, then monetize it six-ways to Sunday. Talk to the hand because the "Digg This" button don't understand.
> What about French Canada vs. France proper? What about Mexico vs. Spain?
Two words: Death match. Two countries enter, one dialect leaves.
> There is no 'Blog Council'. It is a marketing exercise run by GasPedal to promote its services.
Now that's really interesting. Talk about spin-job. Does the guy from GasPedal know anything about monorails? Corporate bloggers could always use a monorail.
Corporate Bloggers are testing the waters to Web 2.0 technologies. They are hearing about the growing demand for Corporate Customer Communities offering the ability for customers to directly impact their business with a variety of technologies that simply assist the communication.
However, Blogging is still a primarily preaching tool when used by organizations. I judge a good corporate blog by the number of replies. A blog that evokes a response has connected on some level.
Corporate blogs can be used also to reach out to the employees. It is one method for the C Suite to connect with everyone in their organization without a filter or watercooler spin on it. It allows them a pipeline to control the grapevine.
This being said, MANY MANY companies are not seeking out professional advice on how to best use this communication methods. Getting good at blogging takes time. I think the best advice is not to give up. The worst blog is a stale one.
>This being said, MANY MANY companies are not seeking out professional advice on how to best use this communication methods.
Why would anyone need professional advice on how to write a blog?
>> "I'm so sick of late-comers who take a good thing and wrap it up in their own twelve-step program of policies and procedures, then monetize it six-ways to Sunday."
Ha. OK, so because "big business" isn't an uber-early adopter, they shouldn't be allowed a place at the table? That's reserved for those of us who were years ahead of the curve? Seems foolish and elitist, quite honestly. We insiders have been begging companies to engage better with us, then as soon as they do we smack their hands for "monetizing" it?? What did you expect them to do?
What is the "good thing" you're talking about? Blogging? Are you one who believes that only individuals should blog? Or perhaps it's only companies with less than 20 employees? Or maybe some other artificial constraint set forth by you personally?
> What about French Canada vs. France proper? What about Mexico vs. Spain?
>> Two words: Death match. Two countries enter, one dialect leaves.
OK, so then I was right - you don't have any answers, you just want to throw stones. If you honestly think that "internationalization" is only about language, or that "winning dialects" is actually a solution, you're showing your lack of actual knowledge on the subject.
> OK, so because "big business" isn't an uber-early adopter, they shouldn't be allowed a place at the table?
No, because there doesn't need to be a table in the first place.
> What is the "good thing" you're talking about?
The time when blogs were more about personality and communicating without veils, walls, tables, or doors. A time when we didn't have marketing guru's creating blog councils.
> OK, so then I was right - you don't have any answers, you just want to throw stones.
Blogging isn't as complicated as you want to make it out to be. Any time you put the word "management" next to "blogs" the result is always watered down and lame.
Good blogging comes from a lack of management and marketing objectives, not more of it. More personality, less message.
If you're preaching otherwise then you're clients efforts are wasted because we've seen this before and the results are always the same: boring and lame.
During the day, I am a mild-mannered wage slave who works at a company whose nickname contains the past tense of the word Blow. A few weeks ago, we received a shiny, very pretty, and no doubt expensive report on all this new-fangled "Blogging", "User-generated Content" and "Social Networking" whatnot, and it is clear that, like politicians and other small-brained organisms, they are running scared. They now know that not all bloggers are ranting idiots (and there are those, too) and they had better listen. The Fear is palpable.
Until now, corporations have controlled the dialog about everything, from the truth about wars to the truth about consumer products. Them days is gone. For better or worse, any loudmouth with a laptop can speak the truth or start a rumor that will tear down a person or product.
This council sounds like an attempt to take back control of the dialog. Good luck with that. Judging by the evidence here at my company, when corporations use the tools of blogging, user-generated content, and social networking, they produce the same lame drivel they always have, just in a different format. That may look like bleeding edge to some bonehead executive, but in the real world it means Dick.
Every once in a while your idiosyncratic tendencies get pointed in the right direction with some relevance. Nicely done.
The best salmon are caught by trolls.
@ Jake McKee
>> Do languages align with cultures?
Uh, ya. Language *is* culture. Man, you don't get it. Not. Even. Close. Just *talk* to people. Do you remember how to have a normal conversation without the CorpSpeak? 'Justify headcount' indeed. Who talks like that? Nobody I know, not even my clients.
Or ....
There are a few pioneering souls inside corporations who truly understand blogging and the blog philosophy. We have stuck our necks out to fight for this inside often-hostile corporate cultures. The Blog Council is one more tool to teach the people you ridicule why this is so important. By wrapping blog ethic in corporate language (lame as it often is) we can make more positive change we could with sarcasm.
Same goal as you, different tool.
Andy Sernovitz
Blog Council
@ Andy
>> There are a few pioneering souls inside corporations who truly understand blogging and the blog philosophy.
Ah, bite me :)
Anyone who puts the word 'unconference' on their home page is lame. Real. People. Don't. Talk. Like. That. And you are trying to sell things to real live human beings, right?
You're completely missing the point. There's no blog philosophy. Just be a normal person and talk to other normal people the way normal people talk. Get it? There's nothing to learn. Or maybe it's that marketing people need to 'unlearn' their trade and learn how to be normal people again.
> 'Justify headcount' indeed. Who talks like that?
A cannibal's accountant?
I am going to contact these companies and offer them a chance to 'click and save' through my Amazon Affiliate account.
If they will fall for this 'Blog Council' idea, they will fall for anything.
@Greg
> "Uh, ya. Language *is* culture."
Well, duh. I'm not saying it's not. My point, however, was that Spanish isn't Spanish to everyone. If you'd actually dealt with this kind of thing before (I'm assuming you haven't, correct me if I'm wrong), you'd know that the French get irritated when you assume that Canadians can fit into their communication. You'd know that while Danes largely speak German (and English), they are fairly offended if you don't offer them a Danish communication in many contexts.
> "Man, you don't get it. Not. Even. Close. Just *talk* to people."
Simplistic and largely irrelevant point. "Just talk to people" is like saying "Just go make money". I outlined several reasons that "just talk" isn't a strategy, and doesn't address anything besides the opening salvo. Sure, have conversation, talk to people, open the kimono, have a great time.
Then what?
Customers have very little interest in talking alone. At some point they're going to want you to deliver something worthwhile beyond talking.
> "Do you remember how to have a normal conversation without the CorpSpeak? '
Yes, I absolutely do. Take a trip to my blog (communityguy.com) and read some of the things I write. Just because I consider the realities of organizations, or just because I don't agree with you 100% doesn't make me some corporate lackey.
> "Justify headcount' indeed. Who talks like that? Nobody I know, not even my clients."
OH, well if YOUR friends and clients never say this, then nobody in the world must say it, right? I actually had a client tell me *yesterday* that exact phrase.
---
> "There's no blog philosophy. Just be a normal person and talk to other normal people the way normal people talk."
Dude, that's a philosophy.
> "Get it? There's nothing to learn. Or maybe it's that marketing people need to 'unlearn' their trade and learn how to be normal people again."
Unlearning something = learning.
But yes, I completely agree with this point. I talk about it regularly, I speak to audiences and clients about the need to just be a human again. Stop thinking like an entity and start thinking like a human. I'm in total agreement that marketing needs to reinvent themselves into something different.
Just because I think "just talk" is an overly simplified way to approach the concept doesn't mean we fundamentally disagree with you. But hey, I used the word "fundamentally", so I must be a corporate shill, right?
@Jake McKee
I don't feel the need to go over your opinion point by point, but I will say that the vast majority of people don't talk like you and the folks in your bubble, they really don't. They're people going about their normal lives and when you say silly shit like 'justify headcount' or 'an overly simplified way to approach the concept' that simply doesn't connect well with people. Nuff said... dude.
Back in the '50s if you had to ask what it meant to "dig" something it automatically meant you were not "hip". That is a common method used by social break-away groups to define themselves through a language and establish an "Us vs. Them" paradigm lending a self-assumed significance to the marginal group.
The argument around "Blogging", like that around all terms from other special "in" languages of the past, is tautological at best and no different than the self-imposed exclusion of the beatniks. In this case it's one just veiled in cyber-hipness.
I know. That means I just don't understand.
Q.E.D.
I'd agree that corporations forming councils around the idea indicates that they don't "get it". I'd add though that people making elitist arguments around the jaw dropping awesomeness of being a "blogger" don't get it either. I remember when my friends were doing it back in the 90s. They didn't need a term for it or an attitude to go with it: they just wrote.
Still, doesn't mean some people don't write a mean blog with lots of interesting content.
@Jake
> Yes, I absolutely do. Take a trip to my blog (communityguy.com) and read some of the things I write. Just because I consider the realities of organizations, or just because I don't agree with you 100% doesn't make me some corporate lackey.
----
I did visit your site and I can honestly say that I don't think I've EVER seen quite so many corporate buzzwords in one location. Heck, you describe your own company as a "Customer Engagement Consultancy". Does anyone really know what that means? It sounds reminiscent of 1997 to me.
Aside from that, in your first comment here, you mention that you are "not associated with the Blog Council". Yet in a December 7th posting on your site, you say "My buddy Andy has launched a new project this week called the Blog Council. " That sir, means you ARE associated and it also means that you've lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.
If this is a project a few of your marketing buddies kicked off and you want to argue their side, that's fine. But don't claim you that you have no association to this when you clearly do.
@spinner
I'm not associated with the Blog Council - I'm not a member and I'm a not an employee. Yes, I know the team and have talked to them about the concept as a complete outsider weeks ago. I thought my context of association was clear, but it wasn't so I apologize. Wasn't trying to hide anything, and made no effort to do so.
@Jake
> Yes, I know the team and have talked to them about the concept as a complete outsider weeks ago.
-----
I'm sure it was a misunderstanding. But to me, if you're working with them in any capacity then you're associated and have at least a small stake in seeing the project succeed. There is nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it's fair to call yourself independent.
Also, when I mentioned that your site contained a lot of buzzwords, I didn't mean that as a slam against you overall. I still think you have a quality website with some good information. You seem like an intelligent guy, so I apologize if I came across as somewhat of an asshat in my last comment. However, I still don't believe you're seeing why this council is so wrong at so many levels.
Aside from the other great points made here, take a moment and consider corporate politics and individual egos. You cannot tell (most) corporate executives they're doing anything wrong. They don't want to hear it and aren't going to accept it. No matter how much you 'unconference', separate into buckets, and twelve-step this thing, it's not going to work.
Sure, you'll get people to pay the price of admission and show up for the chicken dinner. But beyond that, I seriously doubt anything of importance is going to happen. I hope you prove us wrong, but until then, this seems like just another PR stunt to me.
@spinner
OK, so first - thanks for the clarification about the "buzzwords" comment. Community is a buzzword, no question. But I think I've earned the ability through many, many years of community work to focus on it. I've been blogging, speaking, and fighting for positive company/community interaction directly for 7+ years, indirectly for longer. Reminds me of a story from high school - I bought Nirvana's Bleach album when it was newish, and nobody had heard of them. After Nevermind hit big and everyone knew them, I happened to have the Bleach CD with me one day and had someone say "Oh great, you're on the bandwagon now too?"
Anyway, as far as the inherent problems, sounds like we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure your background, but for me, I've been an internal blogger. I've been a mid-level guy in a big company where the community yelled at me for "thinking too much about the company" and 3 minutes later getting yelled at by a colleague for "thinking too much about the community". It's a tough job, and sometimes a comfortable environment of those who "get it" is nice to have. If that has to be private in order to be comfortable, so be it.
(For more on the comfort point, check this post: http://www.communityguy.com/1200/blog-council-feedback-roundup/)
I do agree that there is potential for this thing to go sour, and yes, I agree a good chicken dinner doesn't solve anything. I'm just too much of an optimist to jump ugly on the issue straight away.
@spinner
(I wanted to separate the two responses to the different points you raise)
> "But to me, if you're working with them in any capacity then you're associated and have at least a small stake in seeing the project succeed."
So perhaps the definition of "working" is what's throwing off the conversation. To me "working" means something more tangible, specific, and at least quasi-contractual. A friend calling and saying "Here's what I'm thinking about, yes/no am I on the right path" is, IMHO, far from "working". I'm not "associated", but yes, perhaps I'm not 100% independent either.
A fellow parent/friend might call me and say "Hey, what do you think about how to solve this problem with my toddler?" Giving him advice doesn't equate to co-parenting. Sure, I want to see him succeed because that's what friends do. I might even defend him in front of other parents who thought he did something dumb. But that still doesn't mean that I'm co-parenting.
I think we both understand where each other are coming from, so we probably don't need to spend more time on semantics.
Ooh ooh ooh! I have an idea! We should start a Social Networking Council! Yeah! You know share 'private thoughts' about how to reach out to the public and improve existing social networking sites. We can combine the powers of MySpace, Facebook & Friendster.
SNC-4-EVA! And I want a free t-shirt.
I would like to retain Airbag as my older, smarter brother. When the need arises, I shall cue you to put the Big Hurt on thems that need it.
> I would like to retain Airbag as my older, smarter brother. When the need arises, I shall cue you to put the Big Hurt on thems that need it
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