Today was spent meeting with a client in San Francisco and I had a wonderful time with a great group of people. It's very, very rare that I see any clients at all. In fact this is only the second time I've met an Airbag client face to face. All of my other clients are in far off lands and we communicate by electronic messages and by phone. A project starts and stops without either of us having met in person. I give them XHTML and image files and they give me money. It works and works well but it's not as gratifying as being across the table and working through a list of problems and opportunities. Makes me wish I could visit past clients, to swing by and say hello.
Maybe it's the Jewish deli sandwich talking here (Mmm — thinly sliced pickles on rye — mmm) but I say that you can build all the project management, collaboration chat room, file storage hoo-ha you want but it will never replace the face-to-face.
(Note: Never will I suggest that every client is great to work with, however I have been extremely blessed to have worked with fantastic people since starting Airbag Industries, LLC. Sadly there have been other times, with other employers, in which I was convinced a few clients were put on Earth by the devil himself for the purpose of causing grief and strife to a project. And of those people I am referring too none of them every bought me a sandwich as good as the one I had this afternoon.)
Be sure to tell the good clients how great they are. And do so often.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
Agreed. I'm in the same boat most of the time and have had my share of good, and what I'll call "frustrating" clients. It comes with the territory I think
Lately I've had the pleasure of dealing with what have been great clients and I think we're both coming away at the end of each of the projects feeling very good about the relationship and the work.
Mmmm, Max's Opera House Deli? I can smell the pastrami all the way over here in Arizona.
Or perhaps I'm smelling a rotting coyote that died of dehydration...
Maybe it's the Jewish deli sandwich talking here (Mmm — thinly sliced pickles on rye — mmm)
Any *real* Jewish deli would never serve a pickle sandwich nor put pickles of any thickness in a meat-laden sandwich. Pickles are always on the side.
Are you sure it was an authentic Jewish deli?
Knowing what kind of food overdose I was in yesterday afternoon I'm not sure of anything execpt that I flew to SF at an ungodly time in the morning, met with the client(s), and woke up in my own bed this morning. If Jewish deli's don't put thinly sliced pickles on their sandwiches they might want to reconsider.
Mmmm, I wonder if I can get one of those bad boys FedEx'd to me this afternoon.
You are so right about the difference between any form of electronic communication and face to face contact. In my field, higher education, everyone is going crazy for online degrees and "virtual campuses" in which the students get inferior education becuase they do not have face to face contact with profs. Personally I think any degree offered via one of these "virtual" delivery systems should have an asterisk after the title indicating it is not quite the same as a real degree.
I agree face time with clients is invaluable. Helps you to remember it's not JUST work. I think it's a little Howard Hughes-ish that you've only met 2 of your clients in person. You work from a secret lair inside one of the nostrils in Mt. Rushmore, don't you? Hope they have good sammiches in Austin! :)
My first client that I met face to face was a girl my age (19) with a little son. It's pretty cool when you see who you're helping and who your work will affect.
Meeting clients vs. e mailing/phoning clients is like fresh milled pepper vs. pre-milled pepper. Fresh is just better, even if it's only a little bit better at times.
I always make it clear to clients that I'd be glad to meet with them these days. Don't be too forward though, I think some people find the idea scary, haha. Especially old people. I guess they're afraid I'll mug them, that happens tons around here. I'd personally prefer to mug a younger person with more fight in them, so old people really should just cool out around me.
I think any degree offered via one of these "virtual" delivery systems should have an asterisk after the title indicating it is not quite the same as a real degree.
Spoken like a true academic snob tool. It's what you do with an education that's important, not where you got it.
You work from a secret lair inside one of the nostrils in Mt. Rushmore, don't you?
Damn you Mark! Do you have any idea how hard it was to get Internet connectivity up Lincoln's nose? Now I've got to find another super secret lair.
I've been trying to send you a deli sandwich for some time now...my email client keeps kicking it back to me...so I've been eating them for you. Looking forward to a first meeting here in the near future.
Word.
There's something about face-to-face meetings that still cannot be replicated by videoconferencing, email and other techno hoohahs. Might have to do something with the power of on-site persuasion. It's much less likely for a client to stomp on your ideas and suggestions, or cheat on you, if you are present there in the flesh and deliver a strong personality and conviction about what you are trying to achieve, or sell, etc. The surrounding environment also play a special part that isn't always subdued, even if we're not fully conscious of it. Besides, some client's minds change in a flash from one resolution to another and sometimes it takes a personal rendezvous to set the record straight with them.
Relationships are the best part of having your own business. I've a client who called me up to tell me they were expecting twins, and keeps me updated even though the project has past and gone. It is wonderful to be part of something larger than just a website.
Greg. face-to-face works for you probably more than most. You have an instant likeable personality and a physical presence, you are colorful and you always make the person with whom you are talking the center of the conversation. Most people would talk about their favorite subject "themselves". You are gifted in this way, and would make a superb politician, albeit an honest one.
I've always had an affection for face-to-face meetings rather than con-calls or IM's but obviously in the world of time management, face-to-face is also the most time consuming. I try to always have at least three face-to-face meetings with the client on every project:
1: Kick-off meeting
2: Design Comp Presentation
3: Project Sign-off / Review
Greg, I must defend myself after being accused of being a snob tool. Your response seems to have misread my comment. If I had said something like, "Unless your degree is from a school ranked in the top 100 by US News and World Report your degree is garbage." that would certainly have ranked me as a snob tool.
My comment was not about the relative quality of the education recieved from various schools, but about delivery methods. My point is that if you earned an on-line or distance learning degree from MIT or Harvard it is not the same as having sat in class with world class professors learning from them first hand and interacting face to face with profs and fellow students.
Would someone learn more by reading a book about web design, or by reading the book and then spending forty hours with the author of the book listening to explanations of the ideas in it and asking questions and interacting with the author?
James --
Just because a student sat in a class (and paid $60,000 more) and were able to not fall asleep does not make that degree worth more than someone who never attended an actual class and still passed the same rigorous exam.
Some would say the opposite -- being able to learn (not to be taught) on your own is a trait on its own -- especially in a increasingly ever-changing world of internet programming and development where you can’t attend a class every time a new technology arises.
With that said -- some degree's which require a certain level of presentation (standing in front of a class) I may agree with you because that is not a skill that can transcend all communication mediums.
One thing I've found strange about working with clients is their propensity to call seems to correlate with how close they live to me. You'd think phone calls cost $5/minute for long distance compared to being basically free for local calls.
web
I agree with you that being able to pass an exam without the advantage of having had interaction with a teacher does show some good traits in a student. However, I think we can agree that in a good class you learn a lot more than how to pass an exam.
I think if we consider the topic of Greg's post, face to face contact with a client, illustrates my point a bit. The information could have been conveyed over the phone. The client could have told Greg what they wanted he could have talked to them about it and the buisness could have been done. But there is just something better about personal contact and interaction.
A student could read the textbook, practice the skills and pass the exam, but will be missing out on the intangibles that are gained through real interpersonal retationship between a teacher and his or her students.
Greg, you seem to belie everything that Dilbert has ever taught me.
It's awesome to hear that someone actually has a good time with clients. I know I've cherished those few clients who I've worked with that showed some form of candour and appreciation. The good ones are rare (for me at least).
It motivates me to work harder for a reason beyond just a paycheck. Hope you get to meet more clients face-to-face.
If I had said something like, "Unless your degree is from a school ranked in the top 100 by US News and World Report your degree is garbage." that would certainly have ranked me as a snob tool.
That's pretty much how I took your statement considering that in the past you have bashed my own post secondary education because it came from a state university.
being able to learn (not to be taught) on your own is a trait on its own -- especially in a increasingly ever-changing world of internet programming and development
I've managed a lot of employees in my day and those who are able to learn on their own are the stars, no matter the vocation or practice. Where a degree comes from is becoming less and less relevant at an increasing pace.
The good ones are rare (for me at least)...
They are rare for everyone, I just seem to have hit a good client vein lately.
Hope you get to meet more clients face-to-face.
Er, me too, but I have to say that traveling for these meetings is becoming less and less of a pleasant experience. Last fall I had to fly to Florida for an all day meeting. It took three days of my time to complete the travel, meeting, etc. I got paid for that time but I'd rather have spent that time at the office. It's during those trips that I'm thankful I'm not in sales.
I came out of a highschool last year where teachers aren't teachers so much as book distributors and pen twirlers (They claim the school is based on a university system, only seminars were very rare and the tuition wasn't enough to make students afraid to do badly), and I discovered first hand that information is simply information. It doesn't matter who or what provides it. If it's there and you want to learn it, all you need is dedication.
Why couldn't that apply to someone in post secondary? Who cares who teaches you, so long as the information resources are abundant and accurate? Students, in my opinion, should rely on themselves far more than on their teachers.
Steve,
You have hit on the best argument against my comments, which is that a lot of teachers suck and so to sit in class with them is no better than to learn it on your own without a teacher. In fact bad teachers are often worse than no teacher.
However, to sit under a good teacher is a whole lot better than to just read the book and learn it on your own. Think "Mr. Holland's Opus" or that Gangsta's Paradise movie with Michelle Pfieffer. If you can't remember any teachers who had a greater impact on you than just distributing books and twirling pens, I'm not surprised that you don't see the value of real person interactions in education.
Lastly, not specifically as a response to Steve, but to Airbag in general, I am surprised that when Greg wrote a post the main point of which was
"I say that you can build all the project management, collaboration chat room, file storage hoo-ha you want but it will never replace the face-to-face."
everyone who commented agreed with him (including myself). When I made what seemed to me to be a logical connection, that face to face is better not only in business but also in education, every comment about that point took issue with me. I'm a bit confused.
Oops, I forgot my favorite movie about the difference that a teacher can make in someone's life and I had to add another comment to include it. Dead Poets Society.
The point of all of my comments is this. A student could read the textbook by J. Evans Pritchard PhD and pass an exam about English poetry. Would that experience be equivelent to taking the class from Robin Williams' character?
Yeah, I've been there. May I suggest Katz's Deli in NYC?