After last night I'm having troubled deciding who's going to be the next President. What do you think, Vinick or Santos?
And then there's this pitiful effort.
Aaron.
26 September 05
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I didn't see the show last night, tv-viewing being low on the priority list, but I gotta think they go with Alda. You never know though, I'm guessing Smits scores higher with the 40-50 something female demographic they might be now shooting for on Sunday nights.
I'll tell you in 9 hours after the torrent downloads. I missed it... I hope NBC slips and falls on its pencil for moving the West Wing to Sunday nights. El TiVo should have gotten it for me, but he was busy recording something else.
Santos
I'm hoping Santos. And for the exact opposite people most people think: the show will be too similiar with Vinick. The policy has never been what the show was about; it's about the leadership. Vinick and Bartlet have the same leadership style and I think that it will be better television if a large change comes.
I can think of 5 women I would rather see in the Gina Davis role - how about Jessica Alba?
Only five, Donnie?
But back on topic, Santos will win. Josh was running in at the end for the presidential library thing, and it's because he came with (though a car or two ahead of) the President (Santos) to the ceremony.
My bet is on Santos. Sure, they may spend the entire next episode with the Vinnick camp, but I think the fact that Santos was the focus of the season premiere means he's the one.
I like Andrew's take on it but I really think the show would be more interesting if it moved inside a Republican administration.
Overall, a pretty good episode that gives me high hopes for the season, whoever wins.
The policy has never been what the show was about; it's about the leadership. Vinick and Bartlet have the same leadership style and I think that it will be better television if a large change comes.
Very true but I wonder if the writers can pull off a change like that. Last season the writing seemed to suffered in the beginning, after Aaron left, and it took them awhile to get adjusted to the pace.
...I really think the show would be more interesting if it moved inside a Republican administration.
I'm surprised that Hollywood, being branded as being ultra liberal, wouldn't love the chance to create their version of what they think a Repbulican president should be.
I've always enjoyed contrasting how the show's democratic administration differs from how Bushy and friends handle things - but it usually ends up being the exact same.
Because really, how many ways can you react to terrorism, nuclear proliferation, etc?
That said, I think Santos will win to allow some continuity in the show. What I'm trying to figure out is exactly how Donna Moss will come back to the show and reconcile with Josh after last night's scene. I think she's too popular of a character for them to let go of.
Santos is the reconcilliator(sp?). Since Josh won't hire a deputy, one day he comes into the office and there Donna is. Santos hires her.
I just posted and I am really feeling like the nerd/geek. What is the secret handshake for this???
Tom C, I think you're supposed to go lift weights and beat on a drum for ten minutes.
It's Vinick. The giveaway is that Josh ran into the library at the beginning. Josh would most likely be Santos' chief-of-staff, who rides with the President in most situations - so he'd still be in the limo.
The only issue is this- if Vinick had won...wouldn't Leo be standing with all of them? Where's Leo?
I was hoping it would be Vinick - I've always thought WW would be a better show if they rotated everyone out of the White House...
but that last scene with Leo and Matt was pretty damn cool...
That last scene could not have been written better, pure Aaron Sorkinesque.
As for Leo, maybe he died. I mean the character has some serious health issues...
To be honest, I'm not even sure if the writers have decided yet. It may end up being one of those "film it both ways, then flip a coin" situations.
For 5 minutes, I couldn't figure out that this was fictional. I thought there were all kinds of new names being thrown around for 2008, [I being without TV]. So I was surprised to not hear someone throw in Wesley Clark.
Wesley Clark in 2008
@ Josh K: Good point, but not a complete giveaway, since Josh would likely be Santos' chief of staff (no argument there) but there's no guarantee... he could have declined, not been offered the job, been ousted by scandal/backstabbing/falling ot with Santos, etc.
It's also possible that after spiling the beans on the military space shuttle Josh was hired on as the doorman for the Bartlett Presidential Library. Maybe that's too Dallas or Falcon Crest.
Santos will win. And Toby's the one that leaked the news; he's nortorious for leaking stories, see previous seasons.
I can think of one other person who could be President and for whom Josh would be his #2 guy: Leo. I'm not betting on it, but a newly elected president dying wouldn't be out of the question for TV drama.
I think it's the shoes at the beginning that give it away. They really don't look like Santos style to me... so my money's on Alan Alda.
Josh not being in the limo means nothing - often anyone other than the President and First Lady ride in the Suburban motorcade, and sometimes well ahead of the President for an event (or not at all.) And I'm talking on the show, I know doesn't have to reflect real life.
It would be easy to go both ways, showing what a Republican Administration is like - perhaps a centrist, or a new optimistic Democrat (which is more in-step with the original spirit of the show). I think the tell-tale clue will be how much focus there is one Santos vs Vinick. If the first episode is any clue, the show is about Santos, and eventaully the characters from the Bartlet Administration.
Ultimately, though if Josh remains in the White House and the show has any faith to the original design of the characters, it will be Santos (or the Leo theory). Josh would sooner eat his shoe than work for a Repubican. He is the epitome of a yellow-dog Democrat, and any stray from that is stretching to make a plot shift work.
At least the writing has improved. Nothing can top seasons 1-4. Pure magic.
It'll be Santos in an attempt by NBC to recognize the generally rising population of hispanics in the US and to give the writers an opportunity to address the immigration issue within the storyline.
Nick, you're wrong. Josh will stay in the Whitehouse either way. Not because his character would but because the show needs him. It would be very easy for them to pull one of their bipartisan epiphany moments.
On a different not, my largest beef with Vinnick is that the wife from Home Improvement would be in his cabinet. God, I cannot stand quasi-butch woman.
Andrew, I totally agree the show might do that, for the exact reason you mention. From an external point-of-view, he's integral to its success. But from a character consistency point-of-view, it can't work. It's totally out-of-step. If they choose to do that, which is very likely, it will help the show, but I think water-down one of the show's greatest aspects - the individuality of the characters.
I think one of Josh's functions on the show was to be the voice of an unapologetic liberal (or however you'd label it). He was one distinct voice. Just like CJ had a voice, Sam had a voice, Toby, and Leo. What was great was watching all these opinions merge, create friction behind the scenes but ultimately get distilled into what Bartlet could run with. He seemed to exemplify the character of a leader with good judgment, who listened. It was amazing how the show kept these personalities so distinct. But that's why we could "get to know" them.
So, I think they *can* do it, and might. I just don't think they should.
Surely NBC will pull a CBS (ala CSI, CSI: Miami and CSI: New York) by spliting the show: "The West Wing: Democrats" and "The West Wing: Republicans".
They will create two independent, parallel universes that follow the same issues and external challenges the country faces with both Vinick and Santos as Presidents. This will expand viewing market share at the extreme end of both the left and right parties. It will also keep bloggers entertained enough to watch both shows, while creating little timeline diagrams comparing the two and debating which political philosophy is better. All the while enjoying twice as much advertising.
After a few seasons the Presidents will be joined together in a universe warping episode of Futurama where the winner will be decided via the powerhouse sport of arm wrestling. The victor will transported to the future and star in the new show: "The West Wing: Battlestar Galactica." That'd be swell. Good for ratings too.
nix has emerged! nix lives! and he's writing hilarious comments!
will he ever actually log anything on nixlog agin? stay tuned!! ;^)
Nix is alive and well. I'm trying to prod him into writing about life in the web department at Apple.
Let me just throw this out there: Joshua Lyman is to the West Wing as Hydrogen is to water. I can't see the show surviving with its current audience with out him. Sure freaks like me will continue to watch, but I don't think it will go over well without him. Maybe Vinnick will ask Lyman to be his partisan deputy communication director or stay in his current position and stay just as liberal.
I get rid of Cable TV and the next thing I know they're making Geena Davis president? All I can think of when I see that buck-tooth dufus is "Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!"