WordPress has launched a centrally hosted free blog solution ALA Blogger. On first glance it works great but it's seriously lacking design.
I'm not talking about that design for design's sake crap, but the need for a well developed GUI and an online presence to attract new users and retain existing ones. In several ways I think WordPress has a lot going for it functionally but in order for the software to seriously gain market share the developers need to recognize that design is needed to complete the product.
And while they're at it they should acknowledge Micheal Heilemann's contributions to the current level of success their product enjoys today. Michael's ongoing work in designing a better default template has definitely been value-add to the WordPress platform.
In no way do I discredit the technical merits of the software, I know it's good, but why disable to the potential of this product by leaving design behind?
I know that at one point a well known web designer was brought in to turn things around visually but those efforts were eventually put on hold. I have no idea why this happened nor do I really care, except that I'd really like to see this product mature to the point that it can seriously compete with the likes of Google and Six Apart. Not because I'm looking for a new platform to jump too anytime soon but good competition breeds innovation, the kind that keeps everyone pushing to develop the next great thing.
Somewhere in time developers and designers developed a rivalry in the tradition of engineers vs. managers, Macintosh users vs. Windows losers, Ford vs. Chevy truck owners.
I'll leave it to historians to figure out what sparked this bitter, cold-war between these two groups I just want to see it stop. Designers need to understand that their efforts aren't going to bring about world peace anytime soon, while developers need to admit that most users will never, ever appreciate the genius of their code.
Everything needs curb appeal, including web based applications. And if WordPress can't figure this out their application will always look like the welfare option in blog software.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
Amen.
I did a quick redesign of the WP Admin UI a while ago and most of the people told me they didn't want anything to change. I wasn't changing the product or it's ability to kickass on blogs, I was just trying to make things easier and more appealing.
And if you want to check out a cool Wordpress.com blog look no further than mine. I do believe some 9rulers might be working on a solution to the UI though I can't remeber.
I'll be honest. I am totally frustrated by the lack of design innovation in WordPress. When MT finally went and pissed me off, I switched over earlier this year, and without the Tiger administration theme I would be pulling my hair out.
Matt's a great guy. The dev team works hard. I've seen the progress over the last year. I agree with you that they are nailing things functionally. They are not nailing design.
I don't think it's that nobody *can* do it. Like you say: things are being put on hold. I know it, other WP users know it, and it's stupid. I have no idea what the excuse is, but as a business (yes, WP is incorporated) they had better open their eyes.
It's clearly a retention issue for me and others. I seriously thought WP would be running circles around MT by now. AJAX is a buzzword (die buzzword), but once the new MT comes out with AJAX making the admin area all warm and nice, WordPress had better watch out.
For now, I'm trying out inline post editing for WP to skip the admin entirely. http://twilightuniverse.com/2005/03/wordpress-touched
And as far as site themes go...
K2 may save WP's butt to some degree, but it's one theme. Single. Non-plural. Not enough.
Blogging is all about the individual.
That means more themes, and more diversity of themes. So many WordPress themes look extremely similar to each other, attracting only people of the same niche group or people like me who write their own templates.
But, I really think for WordPress.com to be competetive, they need an admin interface overhaul. I realize that the .com interface is different from the standalone package, but it still just sucks.
They ought to be looking at their competitors and attempting better. They ought to realize that *Blogger* is killing them.
Sorry for the long comment... felt like a rant before bed and you picked the right topic for me. Knee jerk comment? Hope not...
I think there are some really good WP themes out there. Somebody just has to either pick some great ones and throw them in with the default install or build one of those skin sites with ratings and whatnot.
Also, the Tiger Admin is so good it needs to be included. (Might be a good idea to find some new icons for it first though)
First of all, thank you for 'da ree-spct'.
As I just said yesterday on Ryan's blog, less .com'ing, more .org'ing please. WordPress 1.6 has a lot of nice new features coming for the backend primarily (AFAIK), which will probably put WP on the map 'again'. But the releases are too far between IMHO. I'd rather see WP focus on smaller less feature-rich releases.
But then who I am to talk, what with K2's development history, hehe.
Now if only someone with skillz would sit down and get a proper search function for WordPress going. Ajax is great and all, but if I can't find anything in my backlog, what's the use?
Forgot to say: In regards to the backend design, we're working on it. There's nothing to see yet, but we're on the case.
From the top, the great thing about open source, and the reason why it will always appeal to many more people in the end, is the fact that if YOU don't like it, you've got every right to go and try and do better. WordPress isn't one guy's vision, it's a collection of people, all over the world contributing and adding and changing and enhancing. This takes time, but when 1.6 is released, it will be something special, I assure you.
As for no themes, god man, have you actually seen the 250 themes that are readily available for WP? I mean seriously. IMHO there's a complete theme overload in the WP arena, some of which are absolutely excellent designs.
As for no themes, god man, have you actually seen the 250 themes that are readily available for WP?
If you go back and read my post you'll find that my complaint is directed towards the application's default GUI and lack of a good web presence. I am aware of the Tiger modification and it looks great. WordPress needs to either make it the interface from the point of install, or build on it to come up with their own look and feel.
In regards to the backend design, we're working on it.
That's great news, but I've heard this before. Hopefully you're efforts won't be wasted.
Hey man, there is no genius in WordPress's code to appreciate to begin with. It's a total turn-off, really.
Well sounds like a well thought out post (bar the Windows-loser comment.. but let's not start THAT again).
Matt is fairly switched on when it comes to things like this, and I'll bet a pound to a dollar that he reads this post and it sets him thinking. Recently the "Codex" documentation has been really beefed up, and I'd see the "design" area of the product to be next in the firing line.
I like WordPress, but don't use the themes, but having looked at the new hosted solution I think a "blogger-esque" competition and default themes are a must.
Tiger is a good interim solution for the admin panel problem.
Completely agree on the design side of things; just wish I had the time to help out.
Hey, did you just made a joke of Yugo the car? Zastava Yugo? From Yugoslavia? Oh, crap! I got to get rid of that car already...
Well it works... I'll even go so far as to say it works well. I don't know PHP, but somehow I find myself hacking WP on an almost daily basis.
Big things come from small beginnings. And while WP's codebase certainly has its problems, it also has an impressive feature set and a lot of potential.
Greg I was actually talking to Bradley when I said about the 250 themes. I know what you were talking about :), and like I said we're working on it, and have been for the past 7 months, on and off.
I think that Wordpress is making tremendous progress, considering that it is free software. I know Blogger is free, but Google is paying a few people to work on it, you know? As far as I know, Wordpress doesn't have that kind of corporate support.
The Wordpress back-end is getting a lot of attention right now, including a wysiwyg editor, and a post-preview that shows your post through your blog's theme. I would like to see a way to make "admin themes" like the Tiger interface built into the system just like front-end themes.
As for the lack of themes, I don't think that is a fault of Wordpress. The theme-engine (or whatever you want to call it) is incredible. In my opinion, it's only missing a way to theme the login page for the admin interface right now. People are releasing more and more themes all the time, too. Have you seen Alex King's theme page? There's a lot on there, and look at the bottom for some themes that still need reviewing.
Anyway, you're points are still valid to a certain extent, and I respect any efforts put into making this software even better. However, I find Wordpress to be a lot more useful that Blogger, because I can take the software and do whatever I want with it. That's the reason I left Movable Type, and that's the reason I won't go to Blogger.
I know Blogger is free, but Google is paying a few people to work on it, you know?
Um, Blogger wasn't always on the Google payroll. Even in those early days it never looked as bad as WordPress, not even on a bad-hair day.
To be fair, Blogger did get this lot to do their template design for them.
Can WordPress do as well? Yes. Will it be easy to find people with the time and motivation to do it for free? No.
Someone please put together a Textpattern-like admin UI and I'll be happy.
Apparently you don't know your Blogger history. In the pre-Google days, before Stop Design was ever involved, Pyra Labs hired Derek Powazek to design the application and companies website. And it all looked a thousand times better than WP does now.
Why does WP need to find people with the time and movitiation to do this for free? Who's asking them too?
Greg I think you're looking at this from the wrong end. Open source is a great model because it actually enables the user to do with it as they please.
The only way I can see WordPress getting a professional design team working on it, is by making a fund especially for this sort of thing. People donate money to the making the admin user interface better.
Alternatively you get a few designers willing to do it. I wanted to do this, because I believe in the project. Michael had the idea around the same time, and Joen was willing and able to help out as well, Bryan's now in the mix as well for good measure.
It takes longer to get there, but so what? What's the rush? When it comes out, you'll see that a lot of love and attention has gone into it. Linux took YEARS before it got the look even passable as something nice. The good news is that the dev team is rectifying this situation. As a user that's all I could ask for.
I suppose what Greg is getting at (not unreasonably) is that WordPress.com is a business. If businesses want to thrive, they must invest; in this case, they need to invest in a good design for their admin interface (even if that interface is made available free of charge under the GPL), and good themes for WP.com blogs.
Really Wordpress.com is a business? Why do you say that? I've not paid for my blog on wordpress.com and I don't think I've got any ads (that they can make revenue off), let me check, nope doesn't have any ads on it, so I don't see why it's a business.
The WordPress.com model of providing the space etc for a blog is found in several locations around the net, however this is the first time that the WordPress dev team/community provide that option, so you don't even need to think about providing anything further than blogging.
Thanks for your comments, though I must admit they read very harsh. The backend interface on WordPress.com is the work in progress from the efforts of Michael, Khaled, and others in the Shuttle project. If you have revolutionary ideas I would suggest joining that group and pitching in, I'm sure everyone would love to have your efforts.
I seriously doubt anyone involved with the project would suggest the "developers and designers developed a rivalry" or that "the developers need to recognize that design is needed." Quite the opposite, we welcome feedback and improve things literally every day. The development process is completely open. That said, "drive by" contributions in design or code are seldom helpful, because they often represent misunderstandings about core requirements. It would be like if you did a design for a client without talking to them first.
We will never please everyone, and unfortunately what pleases the designerati doesn't always coincide with feedback we get from real users, so there's a fine line to walk. If you ever have any questions about WP feel free to email me.
Khaled: obviously you'd know more about this than me; I'm simply speculating here. However, several things are apparent.
WordPress.com is a hosted blogging service. Hosting such a service requires money. I can therefore think of two scenarios:
1) Matt etc. are philanthropists wanting to bring blogging to the masses, and they are prepared to fund this revolution themselves.
2) It is a business with a plan to make money somehow at some point.
Please delete as appropriate. :)
Matt: I'm reasonably sure that Greg was referring to wider proclivities in the web development world rather than a particular schism within the WordPress development community.
Benedict, right now WordPress.com is self-sufficent and self-supporting, and I plan for it to stay that way. So in that sense I guess you could call it a business.
I could see where that first quote I made could be made in the general sense and not about WordPress, perhaps I misinterpreted it from the context. Sorry!
khaled - I my point is that yes, there are 250+ themes for WP out there. My main complaint is consistency of features among themes. What you find in one is absent in another. A lot of them are amateur, but I think WP.org has picked out a few of the best to feature. But seriously... just look at typepad and get back to me. I really think the need for a handful of consistent default themes is valid.
Benedict, khaled - Matt can attest that months ago, there was a video of him on a stage at some WP party where he announced WordPress, Incorporated. Whether wordpress.com charges or not, it's still a business. I think that this is exactly what WP needed to help sustain itself, and it also needs design. :)
Matt - Hey thanks for being a sport about this. When you make something like WordPress, you are likely to be under fire a bit.
It's actually quite cool that people have such a love/hate for WordPress. It's great PR and brand strengthening, even the bad stuff.
It seems to me that if Blogger is "easy and free", TypePad is "great features and pretty with no install", MT is "stable, usable, and well supported", then WP needs to find the in-between. If Best Buy competes on customer service (ha!), and RadioShack competes on having every obscure part, then Circuit City should probably compete on price. Still be great, still have the features the others have (and more), but find the best angle.
Favorate thing about WP: the one-click install.
Least fav thing about WP: user levels.
Something tells me that WP will always struggle until users can check boxes beside the privilages they want to give to each author. I like how MT works this. I've used WordPress for a couple of freelance jobs before, and I just cannot explain user levels to the clients.
That's another subject.... I digress.
I do believe that we can constructively critique WP. It's not wrong to do so, as some suggest, but be thankful for free software at the very least.
I don't want to take this comment thread off-topic, but you should definitely check out the new "roles" system in 1.6. We've scrapped user levels. :)
Our "in-between" is being open source and having an incredibly active development community. I'm not as interesting trying to fit WP into a niche based on the other players in the marketplace. Our goals aren't relative to other players, they're relative to how happy our users are.
Some WP 1.6 / wordpress.com admin interface snaps here:
http://flickr.com/photos/tags/wordpresscom/
I'm in complete agreement with you there buddy.
I must admit that there's lots of room for improvement... The version running at wordpress.com is better than 1.5.2, but Steve Smith's Tiger Administration really pimps my interface. It's mentioned in the comments before.
I just hope they new goodies in the 1.6. admin interface won't break it up. Also I don't like the fact that TA does not work with IE. It's a bummer when I demonstrate the admin on Safari/Camino/Firefox, but the users are still on IE.
The quality of TA just proves that a lot of improvement can be done just using CSS modifications, the interface logic/markup itself is good.
Really Wordpress.com is a business? Why do you say that? I've not paid for my blog on wordpress.com and I don't think I've got any ads (that they can make revenue off), let me check, nope doesn't have any ads on it, so I don't see why it's a business.
Don't confuse the lack of a registration fee or requirement to provide ad space as indication that WordPress is not a business. Blogger doesn't require these things either yet Blogger is far from being a non-profit, or users group.
WordPress is formally called WordPress Inc. and it is most assuredly a business. The lack of cost per license or requirement for ad space was a business decision made by the CEO of WordPress, Inc.
Now I'm curious. If the intent for WordPress Inc. is to be run as a self-sustaing company that produces free, open-source software, then why haven't WP been designated as a not-for-profit corporation?
Greg, Jonas Luster is not associated with WordPress, there is no company called WordPress Inc., and you shouldn't take everything in a 6 month old article on a gossip weblog as gospel.
You're well-versed in Blogger's history, you know they did require ads at one point and despite that they also went through some very rough times until they hooked up with Google. We're not trying to recreate what was done 5 years ago with Blogger or Pitas or anything, the world is a very different place. Besides, I hate online advertising. :)
Anyway, the offer still stands to join the group working on the new design if you'd be willing to volunteer your expertise. You obviously have strong opinions about it and the decisions made there are going to be in front of a pretty huge number of users every day. Are you interested?
Matt, I had a good time chatting with you yesterday.
But I have to ask you, what has become of WordPress, Inc.? Or does the company to which I refer go by another name? I *watched* you on a stage announce this company! I was in another state, but I saw the video, and it was your face up there.
Explain? I'm confused now.
Video w/mirrors: http://theryanking.com/blog/archives/2005/03/23/a-wordpress-announcement
"You know we're celebrating 100,000 downloads. We're also announcing WordPress Incorporated."
I'm not trying to shoot you down, I'm just trying to figure out what the deal is. You said it on stage, and now you say that there is no such company? Did it never take flight?
Explain? I'm confused now.
Yeah I'd like to hear this as well because until now I was under the impression that WordPress was incorporated. Is this news to anyone else?
Okay let's get pedantic, since it's always good for discussion (just to clarify I'm not here to argue, nor am I interested in starting a flame thread on your blog).
There are several ways to describe a business. The traditional sense in which it is generally spoken and then one which I was actually refering to above comments is the following school of thought:
An organization created with the objective of making a profit from the sale of goods or services.
If we take the stance that WordPress.com is in the business of providing a platform where you can blog free of charge, with space and domain name provided for you, then I do stand corrected :).
I personnaly didn't see any difference since that announcement. The only thing I saw was a few months later when Jonas decided to switch to Typo. I'm not privy to what went on behind the scenes, nor am I that interested to be completely honest.
You voiced your concerns regarding the administration panel being a bit naff, I just wanted to say work has been underway to solve and aid this area of the program for the past 9 months (albeit on and off).
And as Matt said you're more than welcome to join the Shuttle team (I'm sure the rest of the guys would be happy to have you along for the final stretch of the project), kinda someone with a fresh outlook on things...
If anyone wants an invite to WordPress.com, I've can help you out.
http://www.paulstamatiou.com/2005/09/23/wordpresscom-golden-ticket-giveaway/
BTW, if you go to flickr and look for "textdrive" you will see the guy who runs WordPress.com and his servers.
Even though there haven't been any official announcements, I've been the impression that WordPress.com is a business since I read this article from the San Jose Mercury News:
Today is his big day. He's showing off the corporate version of his software, called WordPress.com, for the first time. It will allow companies to host the software on their own or WordPress servers -- giving employees the freedom to blog.
There's a number of people who have been talking about Matt even having received some VC funding. This is just the sort of talk from conferences and can't be confirmed. It would be nice though if WordPress users (like me) could actually know what's going behind the scenes.
Matt, would you be a dear and explain what is going on?
never a big wordpress fan, I use phpblog and blogger is pretty good as well
Just to say. Yugo is name of Serbian car. :)
What's your point?