I feel bad for those people who have weather a storm of the century but I also feel a bit frustrated with my fellow countrymen and their lack of sanity.
For most of my life, I have lived within the Ring of Fire, an imaginary ring on land and in the ocean that follows along the edges of giant tectonic plates that grind against each other to produce earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. Thankfully I have yet to endure any sort of monster natural disaster but there have been enough quake in my time to feel a little edgy when the ground starts to rattle. And when that happens I'm looking for the safest place to seek refuge.
Unlike hurricanes and typhoons you don't have the connivence of warning, of any kind. It just happens and you have seconds to react. Sure, it would be great if the local weatherman tacked on a little earthquake forecast report onto his job description but the science isn't there yet.
So It upsets the hell out of me when I see people stranded in homes and hotels because they did not leave town despite everyone, including God Almighty, telling them to evacuate. When the weatherman is showing a giant swirling storm heading your way and it's composed of reds, orange and yellow colors (the kind that mean death can and will follow) how can a person just shrug? Are there really that many mouth breathers in the Gulf Coast area?
I have little sympathy for those who chose to weather the storm because they had done so in the past and ignored two full days of warnings of demise. Two. Full. Days. These people are part of the same sub-family of humanoids that keep building their homes on and under hillsides in regions that have a history of collapsing here in Southern California.
It's senseless, stupid, and selfish. Now those of us who had nothing to do with their faulty decision making process will be asked to pitch in to help these people who have, at best, a poor lack of sense. Top it off with looting and shooting at the same people who are putting their own lives at risk to rescue them.
This isn't simple for me to write. My wife and I know an older couple who live in the French Quarter. They chose to weather the storm and have not been heard from since and no one knows of their fate. It's sad to know that they may have passed but how much more of a warning did they need?
I'm sure there are a many cases where people where not able to evacuate for health or wealth reasons and to those persons I have nothing but compassion and empathy. As well the thoughts and prayers of the Storey family go out to the hundreds of thousands of people who are now displaced, maybe permanently.
For those persons I hope and pray for an end to their suffering and anguish and wish for a speedy return to a normal life. If that can ever be called normal again.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
Amen. My only gripe with your post is with the link to the NYT story in longboard — about the photos of the suffering being mostly minority and/or African American. Certainly, the wealthy had options to evacuate that the poor did not have, but there's a simple reason the majority of the victims are minority: the majority of the population of the city is minority (close to 70%). There should be a political storm, but not one along racial lines. That article missed the mark by a mile by implying that somehow the racial makeup of the victims is disproportionately skewed — that's not the case at all from what I've seen. I lived in Nawlins for almost 5 years and I have friends and family I haven't been able to contact yet — kinda going crazy ... amazingly frustrating and desperate feeling.
You took the words right out of my mouth. While I certainly can understand that in some instances people couldn't leave (for instance, the 77-year old woman who had to stay with her enfeebled 98-year old mother featured last night on The O'Reilly Factor--they, at least, had the sense of mind to stock up on supplies, but they're still waiting to be helped), it's completely ludicrous that a great many of these people are now complaining vehemently that no one is helping them.
Had they just HELPED THEMSELVES in the first place, they wouldn't be in this situation.
I agree with your thougthts and share your frustration. There are a many who just couldn't evacuate, though; because of extreme circumstances. It's those people I'm sorry for.
I'm also extremely frustrated by the reaction of America. I wouldn't say this out loud, but I'm ashamed we're still blogging about the Apple event coming up or poker strategies (sorry, Jeff, but this post could have waited a few weeks for this whole mess to calm). The situation in the South is getting worse by the day. The media is calling it pure anarchy and "like Armageddon" down there. Maybe it's too close to home and so we've shut down, or maybe we just don't realize the implications. Whatever the case, the reality of the situation makes a possible new video iPod seem absolute child's play.
I also feel useless -- which is probably the way most of (aware) America feels. What can we possibly do to help these people, our Countrymen? There are those who've evacuated when they were supposed to, followed all the rules and signs, and now have nothing to return to ... not their home, their job, or their city! What can we do for these people?
Anyway, I guess learning "how to call" is really appropriate, since most of those caught in the Big Easy did just that, and got caught with their pants down.
/agreed
The story about boaters being shot at as they were trying to help within the city really irks me.
Nicely done 'Nawlins.
To the sane and good people effected by the disaster, I can't imagine what they are going through. God speed.
Let me first say. My heart goes out to all those that have been hurt by this massive tragedy.
My money is already on its way......
Now, that being said. When the cities forefathers KNEW they were building a city below sea level. Dumb on you! And when a city is being told by everyone and their mother to get out. Find a friend and family member and head out of dodge.....and refuse. Well dumb on you!
We come back to the beautiful thing called Natural Selection. My buddy Darwin at his best!
OK, you say that is harsh. What about the old/young and feeble. OK, I really feel for them. BUT, let us say 90% of those do have family that refused to leave? They paid the ultimate price for foolishness of their relatives. Ooops, there is that fellow Darwin coming back up!!
That is not to say I feel the same about the folks in MS/AL. There were not told to leave. There were no manditory evecuations there. Whole neighborhoods wiped out. What a tragedy!
As a side note: While the US has ALWAYS helped out in some way to natural disasters throughout the world. Sometimes billions, sometimes thousands.
How many countries in the world are going to come to our aid????
I do feel bad for the things that are happening down there, but I gotta say I love that the Mayor said "This is our Tsunami". How unfortunate to utter those words. Wasn't the tsunami a bit more of a surprise? Katrina was forecasted days in advance. I guess it's better than him saying "This is our holocaust".
Had they just HELPED THEMSELVES in the first place, they wouldn't be in this situation.
Sorry — I think this sentiment is bogus and offensive. Let's say you were a person with a family living at the poverty line (or below). You had no credit card and barely enough money in your bank account to fill up your gas tank. You just spent your paycheck on food for your 3 young children. You have no family or friends that aren't either in your neighborhood or less than 1000 miles away. Your one option that was communicated to you was "go to the Superdome" (which isn't really an option if you're outside metro New Orleans). What if you lived on the Bayou? What if you where in rural East New Orleans and Slidell? What if you didn't have enough cash to get a motel room or a reliable car to drive? What if you are on welfare and live hand to mouth already? This is the situation in America's poor rural south — which, if you haven't experienced it for yourself, I guess might be hard to appreciate. "Helping yourself" is not so simple for a lot of Americans who don't enjoy the benefits of a middle class existance ... and a lot of them are in southern Louisiana and Mississippi.
Obviously I'm (formerly Tom) a different Tom than the Darwin genius, who deserves to have a little natural selection dropped on his family and see how he likes it.
Re: City forefathers — the city is 400 years old. It's a port. The engineers weren't really on the payroll in 1605, sorry.
While there are people who refused to leave because they were stubborn it's a really poor generalization to think that is the reason that most did not leave. I guarantee that most did not leave because they could not afford to leave. As I said above, I lived in southern Louisiana and while there is affluence there and in the Gulf coast, there are huge populations of the desperately poor. If you haven't noticed, they exist in America. Not everyone can just load up the Escalade and boogie when they want to. You're looking at hundreds of thousands of people who had very little, who now have nothing. Show some compassion.
Actually, as Tom pointed out, a large percentage of the people who stayed behind either didn't have the means to leave themselves (no car) or were so poor that they couldn't afford to buy train, bus, or plane tickets - all of which were apparently very expensive or unavailable as the storm drew nearer.
Your anger is misdirected. The major issue here wasn't the fact that the poorest people stayed behind; it was the fact that there was absolutely no system put in place to help those who couldn't help themselves leave. No government buses or other transport was arranged. No system was put in place to help people with families who couldn't afford to "get themselves out".
It's easy to assume that people just stayed behind because they were obstinate asses, but the truth of the matter is much more complex than that. I'm sure there were some people who stayed even though they could have left, but from what I've heard from friends there, the poor (basically, the blacks) was basically left to their own devices.
What Tom said. I rode my motorcycle through rural Mississippi and Louisiana last year and I was shocked by the poverty. Having money gives you options - many of the people there simply don't have either.
So Mr. Dolan,
Your saying that in the 1600's. A good sailing captian, that somehow was brave enough to cross the seas, not knowing what was out there. Came to an inlet on the coast and couldn't tell where high, dry land was. And where land would flood in high tides? Because without the current levy system, a lot of New Orleans would be wet. We are really not talking abour rocket science here.
As for my compansion. I have all the compassion in the world for those hurt/killed by this. That does not mean I can't look at this in logical manner. Which we will all have to to one day, to make sure this never happens again.
And if I were there and disregarded numerous warnings to leave, even if i had to walk to higher ground. I would deserve Darwin crashing down me like a lead weight!
Dolan,
If a meteor falls from the sky, you get out of the way just long enough for it to land. After it has landed, you can go back to your normal life.
No one expected them all to leave permanently. Just get the 'F' outta Dodge until it's safe to come back!
And if you can't afford to hop a Greyhound and stay in a Motel 6, maybe you didn't contribute much to society in the first place. So, no big loss, eh? :)
Wow.
That's the most ignorant thing I've seen you post. This is flat out offensive and you should be called on it.
From what I have heard, many people living on disability, social security, etc. were waiting for their monthly checks due on the first (today). Many simply DID NOT HAVE THE MEANS to leave. This does not make them "mouthbreathers" this makes them "humans doing the best they can with what they've got". Gas prices aint helping any...
Yes, with Two. Full. Days. of warning, I would think a better job could have been done to coordinate a publicly funded evacuation. From what I've seen and heard it was everybody on their own to get out and if you can't go to the Superdome. And if you can't do that, good luck, we'll see you on the other side. And that's where we are now.
These people have my sympathy. No less because they had warning it was coming. Just as you'll receive no more or no less when the ground underneath you trembles unexpectedly.
Weird of you to post this as the tragedy there gets worse and worse.
I find it hard to consider your argument when--by your own admission--you've lived on the Ring of Fire most of your life. Consider this rework of your post:
"So It upsets the hell out of me when I see people stranded in homes and hotels because they did not leave town despite everyone, including God Almighty, telling them to evacuate. When the scientists are telling you that you live on an active major earthquake fault zone and "the Big One" is imminent (the Big One meaning that death can and will follow) how can a person just shrug? Are there really that many mouth breathers in California?
I have little sympathy for those who chose to bide their time because they had done so in the past and ignored two full decades of warnings of demise. Two. Full. Decades. These people are part of the same sub-family of humanoids that keep building their homes on floodplanes of the Mississippi River Delta."
Hupp: I guess you, and others, didn't read the full text: "I'm sure there are a many cases where people where not able to evacuate for health or wealth reasons and to those persons I have nothing but compassion and empathy."
Sixtoe: Clever, but I are you suggesting that no one should live in an area of potential danger? Maybe we should all move to North Dakota to avoid the earthquakes, hurricanes and tornadoes.
"I wouldn't say this out loud, but I'm ashamed we're still blogging about the Apple event coming up or poker strategies (sorry, Jeff, but this post could have waited a few weeks for this whole mess to calm)"
Sean, please tell me you are kidding. While I agree that this situation is quite dire, I don't think it is wrong in ANY way for people to post subjects, such as poker, on their blog. For you to claim that someone is more worried about "what apple is releasing next" or "what hand to call in poker" more than they care about the hurricane, just because they post it on their blog, is assanine. I think I speak for everyone when I say that everyone is VERY worried, and VERY saddened by this event, but we don't all have to drop everything and post it on our front page to show it.
Great post. People didn't leave because they are poor or don't have the means to leave. It is more of the Chicken Little syndrome where these people have lived in Nawlings all their lives and are told every year that a hurricane could wipe them out. It never comes to pass ... I think people start to shrug and say, "I've riden many a storm in my day. I'm not leaving."
At the end of the day, the city gave bus passes for people to leave. They begged everyone to get out of town. There isn't much else that can be done if someone doesn't leave.
Oh, and It's levee, btw.
Jason: 100% agreed.
There is a world of difference between 100 (?) and a quarter of a million deaths.
Greg - I would say that I agree with what you've said. Tom C - New Orleans was actually not always below sea level, it became that way as the city grew (at least that was according to the news report I watched last night) As for my opinion, I am saddened by the lack of basic humanity. If people were without means, then where were those with means to help? Perhaps there were those lending a hand, and we just haven't heard about it yet... perhaps there wasn't enough of that going on. Now with looters stealing guns, and effectively shutting down potential help, it is disgusting to realize what a selfish attitude is being portrayed in this time of need.
Talk about an asshat. That is an incredibly ignorant statement on your part. I live in an area that is highly subject to hurricanes. In fact, Katrina was supposed to travel over us as tropical storm.
So...get out? When you have no idea until the last moment if it is really going to hit you or not? And go where? Because all the hotels fill up fast. And there are no excused absences at work if you take off and it doesn't hit.
It would be a lovely experience to be trapped in your car, that happened here last year when people fled and things changed at the last minute.
And what about people who don't have the financial resources to go? Gas and hotels add up fast. Just get in your car and drive? Walk, if you have to? That's realistic.
How smug and superior of you and your commenters to sit in judgement. I'm not aware that there is an area in this country that is safe from floods, storms, tornados, ice storms, drought, wild fires, hurricanes and earthquakes.
This is so incredibly offensive I can't even really formulate an adequate response.
"This is our tsunami." - Biloxi Mayor A.J. Holloway
When I first heard the quote a couple of days ago, my first reaction was, "There is no comparison! 226,000 people lost their lives in the Asian tsunami!"
But, thinking about it, I've come to a different place now. Why compare at all? That was a horrible disaster. This is a horrible disaster. Do we need to compare horribleness?
Just say, "This is our Katrina." That's powerful enough.
Sean, please tell me you are kidding. While I agree that this situation is quite dire, I don't think it is wrong in ANY way for people to post subjects, such as poker, on their blog.
No, Josh, I'm not kidding about being ashamed ... but I'm not pointing fingers either (I just used Jeff's post as an example because I know he can take it and I found it interestingly relevant). As I said, I think this thing is just too close to home for most of us and we don't know how to respond. Personally, though, I felt a conviction yesterday realizing how extremely dire the situation is for those affected by Katrina. Suddenly my cares about iPods, poker and dial-up networking seem selfish and trite.
I agree with the post by "Forget It." Greg, your tiny, tiny world is too small for me. I'll never visit this site again.
However unpopular it may be, I agree with the "get out when you see it coming" sentiment. It was an almost guaranteed disaster from several days out, so there was good reason for those that could easily get out to leave. Then, when it became more evident, the government should have stepped up. I've seen pictures of 50+ flooded schoolbusses that could have been used to transport the elderly/homeless/poor/stupid to someplace safe. And I know they offered the Superdome as a safe place, but we should have learned by now that humans do *not* exist in small (for the number of people there) locations well, espcially without "creature comforts".
It's a sad event and I feel horrible for all of the people involved in it, but it could have been prevented/lessened to a large degree.
Hm.
In general, I agree with the tenor of Greg's post, although I would be inclined to be more charitable. People no doubt stayed for a variety of reasons -- sentiment, stupidity, denial among them -- but I think that in general, when the chips were down, they did not think through the consequences. When things are falling apart, it is not always easy to make rational decisions. I’d be careful about lumping them all in one category.
As for the poor, elderly and infirm being left behind, I hate to get all metaphorical on y’all, but this is just an accelerated version of what goes on every day in this country. When the situation gets dire, they are the last to be evacuated and the first to lose control. (Hence Looting and Mayhem.) The dipshits in Washington (Democrats and Republicans) would do well to take notice of this. It is not just Mother Nature that can cause dire circumstances and desperate behaviors.
Re: Tsunami versus Hurricane: I don't understand why there needs to be a comparison. I am one of the biggest "Self-Hating Americans" around, but there is an obvious reason why this is such a big deal to us: it is close to home. The numbers are irrelevant. I don't think that a person who had one family member murdered deserves one-tenth the sympathy that a person who had ten family members murdered. That kind of emotional bean-counting is ludicrous. Why compare? Just give and grieve.
Re: Blame. Why N.O. is built in a flood zone, who should have had busses where, etc., etc. Folks, this was a natural disaster. Not everything can be fixed, avoided, or mitigated. Whether we live in California, Tornado Alley, or the Gulf Coast, there are natural dangers that may occur. We do the best we can, and try to help our fellow citizens when they are down.
And…proper reactions. We do not have an infinite capacity for grief, and I find it interesting that someone who is surfing the web is critical of posts that do not wallow in this grief. I too, find it meaningless to update my blog right now, but does that mean everyone should do this?
maybe it has to do, with we, western people, thinking - nothing can touch us, modernity and knowledge and power and weapons, are the barriers that will keep all the bed things away from us.
but 9 / 11 showed us, that horror created by men can reach us anywhere, and the tsunami and now new Orleans - show us again the horror that we are facing from nature it self.
humanity will have to make huge adjustments - practically and physiological
god will help us
Well said Beerzie.
The more I have surfed the web and watch TV news on Katrina. The more disgusted I become. It seems that anything and everything HAS to have someone/something to blame. You have Politicians and Europian Media blaming US energy policy. You have people saying that the city/county/state governments are responisible. That they should have made people leave. Or they didn't provide enough buses to get people out. It's the National Guards fault because they didn't get there 2hrs after it happened.
I am waiting until the media grasps it was a sercret government agency that started the hurricane in the Atlantic to see if they could. And it got away from them, so they decided to let it go. In the hopes that it would convice people that we should drill in ANWAR!!
PEOPLE...It was a natrual disaster...people did what they thought best before hand. Good and bad. And people are trying to do the best they can in the aftermath. good and bad.
Oh, and It's levee, btw.
That would be best if I was looking for a literal subject line but I think I'll stick to the word chosen.
So...get out? When you have no idea until the last moment if it is really going to hit you or not?
Last momment? What kind of pin-point accuracy do you need to know that it's time get out of the way of a storm the size of Florida?
"The numbers are irrelevant. I don't think that a person who had one family member murdered deserves one-tenth the sympathy that a person who had ten family members murdered. That kind of emotional bean-counting is ludicrous. Why compare? Just give and grieve."
Excellent comment, Beerzie Boy. I couldn't have said it better myself.
30% of New Orleans lives below the poverty level. It's not that these folks couldn't afford the bus ticket out. When you're living hand to mouth, you can't afford to miss work -- and you can't afford to lose all of your possessions -- these folks are generally not going to be carrying insurance. Additionally, they're also not likely to have extended family living far outside the affected area that can afford to take them in.
I think it's facile to posit the issue as if all these people were given a choice to leave and are in trouble now because of the storm. Even if they had evacuated, they'd be in dire shape -- jobless, pennyless, and displaced, not to mention disconnected from what social networks they might have had. Their desperation led them to risk everything to protect what little they had, and that's just sad, not stupid.
Not everyone can hop in the car and go stay at the Holiday Inn in the next state for a few months. Too many people online forget that they have options that many people, especially in some of the poorest states of this country (much less the rest of the world) simply don't have.
This thread is like asking why people live in trailer parks in tornado alley -- it's not because they don't know it's dangerous. Or more simply, it's like asking, why is anyone stupid enough to live in a bad neighborhood?
Or how the mainstream media says --after-- "We told you so! We knew this was going to be as huge as we projected it to be!"
Sean-
I know you're a regular visitor to my site and I definitely appreciate you coming by and offering your opinion as often as possible. So don't take this the wrong way...
But really, c'mon. My blog has always been about a handful of topics that seem to be of interest to my readers (namely web deesign/development, Mac stuff, poker, and to a lesser degree, sports). I virtually never post about politics, current events, weather, etc. Why you'd expect me to do so this week is really beyond me.
Of course I'm saddened and concerned for the people of New Orleans and the other areas affected by this tragic storm...but that doesn't make it an appropriate topic for my blog. I know nothing about hurricanes, New Orleans, tragedy, rescue, disaster recovery, or any other topic relevant to the storm. I wouldn't begin to know what to say. The changes of me making an intelligible post about any of that are slim to none. But does that make me an insensitive prick?
I wish nothing but the best for everyone who is affected by this storm. I feel sorry for them and I realize this must be an incredible burden the likes of which I have never known.
I just didn't think it was an appropriate topic for my blog. That's all.
Tom Dolan hit the nail on the head.
Did (some) people stay in New Orleans and surrounding areas, states out of stupidity/pride? Probably.
Did (most) people stay in New Orleans and surrounding areas, states because they just did not have the means to get out in time. Most Definetly.
If you've looked at any of the infographics floating around the web and elsewhere, you would see that the majority of the people affected by this hurricane were way below the national poverty level, so it's very easy to see how they just did not have the capabilities to get out of that area.
Greg, I see your frustration as I live in a VERY hurricane prone area and have seen the kind of stupidity you write about before, but the tone of this post was way off base.
I 100% agree with you.
I also took the line of talk the other day about how the looters who are stealing things other then food should be shot on site (not necessarily killed, but maimed). Those shooting at rescue workers should be shot also.
Then someone brougt up the fact that these people haven't eaten for days, have no water, lost loved ones, and simply stated, their mental capacity is not the best in the world right now, so much of the looting may very well be the looters thinking "I have to do SOMETHING, anything I can get my hands on".
That is true to a degree. So while a part of me says Shoot the bastards, another part of me pulls away and says, "they are not well, mentally, physically, or emotionally. They are doing WHATEVER they can do"
For those who stayed there and COULD have left, it's hard to sympathize, it really is.
I want to add a follow up post after reading everyone's comments.
I retract my 100% part simply because I fully understand how it's not as easy for someone, dirt poor or not, to simply get up and leave, especially if there is no mode of transportation.
There were many who, as it was said above, couldn't just leave due to their job, living paycheck to paycheck, or whatever reason.
Those that COULD leave, I have no sympathy. Those that wanted to leave, and couldn't. My heart goes out to you. Those that had to make a last minute decision based on their situation, again , my heart goes out to you and your loved ones.
I realize what an insensitive prick my first comment came off as.
Those that are shooting at helicopters and rescue workers, I hope you get popped in the back.
Wanted to give my two cents on this, but I can already say that many others have already said it better.
How could a city of nearly a million people evacuate completely? It would take a lot more than a threat of a hurricane to make that happen. If you want to evacuate, but don't have a car, what do you do?
There is just so many different factors that play a part in why some people stayed behind (20,000-50,000 is really not that many compared with the how many people left).
It seems a little arrogant to pass judgement on those who stayed in NO, especially since nobody in this discussion has experienced anything like this.
What do you say about the professionals who stayed behind, like the
DirectNic.com team? Or the undoubtedly hundreds of other people who chose to seek refuge in their offices in the downtown area (lotsof safe and secure buildings there).
And if you can't afford to hop a Greyhound and stay in a Motel 6, maybe you didn't contribute much to society in the first place. So, no big loss, eh?
Wow, that's a response that leaves me seriously dumbfounded and depressed at the lack of distance mankind has made from chimps (oblique Darwin reference to continue that thread). Maybe we should just round those people up, heard them into camps and euthanize them? Maybe you just haven't seen what rural poverty is like in Southern America. Maybe you've lived your whole life spoonfed in the 'burbs. You should get out more and see what the real world is like beyond your big screen TV and past the mall — although it's likely a picture you're more comfortable not seeing.
Greg - You're an asshat. The Mayor of New Orleans is dealing with total destruction and anarchy of his city - and you're first comment on the situation is how it annoys you that he refers to it as a "tsunami".
I like how one side of your post points out how to provide relief and the other side says, "but do they really deserve it." I really don't understand why people come here for your commentaries. You don't strike me as a compassionate person (comments on Bush, Schiavo, military, other designers who do not possess your ornate gift of cold brilliance). I liked coming here for the links but I'm tired of your kneejerk comments on the other side.
I don't get the impression that you would be very good in a crisis, so I'm bailing out of your boat and swimming on - because it's better to die trying than to die waiting.
Steve you should have read the article, it was the mayor of Biloxi who made that statement. Stan made a dead on remark about this earlier in the comments.
I'm so very sorry. Did I get the wrong mayor of the same disaster. Wow. That is a huge difference. My bad. And you're right, Jason's comment was sheer brilliance. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Dead on. A total idiot that mayor. He must've had too many emotions going on at the time - or his PR person must've been trying to get in touch with his family when the comment was made.
Tom, Tom, Tom...
You are speaking as if rural poverty is a result of oppression. Last time I checked, anyone can go to a public school, get financial aid or a loan, go to college, and live the American dream.
If this were happening in another country where equal opportunity is not widely available, it would be a different story.
Don't sugar-coat someone's inability to get out of the way of a Mack truck as it's heading stright for them at 80 mph. This is simply about stupidity, not poverty. The sad thing is that a lot of people driven from their homes will just rebuild them, only to have the same thing happen again and again.
Yes, I have lived my whole life in the 'burbs because I chose to make something of myself. And I resent the statement about my life consisting of big screen TVs and malls. My computer and my MP3 player are JUST as important as my TV.
I've read this a few times to make sure I read it right. Wouldn't want to be an asshat... I've got to say, it's your blog, post what you want, but...this seems ill-timed and inappropriate to say the least...
It's a bit harsh, don't you think? I guess there is some sick logic to what you're saying. I too think it's crazy to live somewhere where you're home could be wrecked at a moments notice, and I also understand the frustration towards those who didn't do what they should have, but... Did it need to be pointed out right now? I'm quite sure no one wanted this to happen to them, and yeah, they're were probably all sorts of mistakes made, by all sorts of people. There's quite a few people this event touched...
And Lifehut? "No sympathy" for the people who made a horrible decision? You can't mean that...
I can understand wanting to talk about this as opposed to, say, poker (although I've got no problem with people keeping their lives going admits tragedy) but I can't help but think some compassion should be spread around to just about everyone who is suffering through this.
I don't think it's unreasonable to compare the hurricane and subsequent flooding of New Orleans with the Boxing Day tsunami. While the devastation is not on such a massive scale, the individuals affected (whether they stayed in New Orleans or not - I'm not going *near* that one) will experience, over the next year, exactly the same problems as those affected by the tsunami. They will suffer grief, and they will find it hard to get fresh water. They will return to flood-damaged homes, or no homes at all. They will live in tents or stadiums, followed by temporary housing, and maybe, finally, eventually, move into their own houses again. They will fight with insurance companies and they'll worry about the school their kids are missing. Now put yourself in the place of the Mayor of Biloxi and imagine why you might have made that comparison.
You are speaking as if rural poverty is a result of oppression.
I won't hijack this thread into another direction, but if you think all poor people are poor because they lack ambition you're simply either clueless or a heartless bastard. I'll choose to simply take your post as an attempt at being edgy and provocative, like some cheap talk radio schtick. I'm done wasting my breath in your direction.
I find it strange that when there is so much suffering going on what some people want to do is blame: blame the people who are stuck there, pick on the mayor for the language he's using etc. if there is any blaming to be done it is of a government that refuses to accept that climate change is occuring (whatever the reasons why) and cut back on levy funding. Being high handed about the the people who are stuck there is just a way of distancing yourself from what is happening. People are drowning, hungry, thirsty and frightened. This is making them angry. Things are going to get worse. Don't try and convince yourself that they don't need or deserve your sympathy, it impoverishes you and certainly doesn't help them.
This post unfortunately demonstrates your very high standards for compassion and generosity.
If someone is stuck on a rooftop, whether or not he or she ignored evacuation warnings, a good citizen will save that person no questions -- and taxes -- asked.
I agree with Neil's post that the local government failed to control the situation before, during and after the storm hit, because as you said, it wasn't completely unexpected. I hope that you will reconsider your position on what is happening in New Orleans in the future when your anger has subsided.
>> Last time I checked, anyone can go to a public school, get financial aid or a loan, go to college, and live the American dream.
No way, you did not say that in truth, did you?!!! Ignorant little person.
In regards to comparing the 2004 Tsunami to Hurricane Katrina, if I was living through this nightmare going on in New Orleans I think I would say the EXACT SAME THING.
New Orleans is huge, and it is total lawless chaos. I was sitting in bed last night envisioning some sort of Mad Max renegade stuff going on there in the coming weeks. I think it's going to get a lot worse down there before it gets better, let's have some sympathy people.
While the devastation is not on such a massive scale, the individuals affected (whether they stayed in New Orleans or not - I'm not going *near* that one) will experience, over the next year, exactly the same problems as those affected by the tsunami.
Yes, Virginia, this is exactly right. If we sit and look at it exactly in terms of numbers, it doesn't match the tsunami. But for each person living through it, those losing loved ones, losing everything they own, watching their entire lives washed away, for them it has the exact same effect as the tsunami. Numbers aren't important.
Attacking everyone for expressing their shock and outrage at this disaster, in whatever form their expression takes, is just wasting our energies. Greg has expressed outrage at those that are stupid (the one's that choose to stay) or despicable (the tv and booze looters). He's upset, as are we all, at the disaster. BUT... he did not express frustration at ALL people left in New Orleans -- it was aimed at those that CHOOSE to stay. He didn't say that everyone choose to stay. In fact, he didn't mention any numbers or percentage at all. His post may seem (in a quick read) to wield a wide brush, but it's pretty narrow. It's aimed at the idiots. NOT those that couldn't leave.
I like Sween, he reads an entry in full before racing to the comment box.
I'm not going to waste too much time repeating Tom Dolan's posts, but I have to voice my dissent on the whole "poor people are too stupid and lazy to get out of the way of the hurricane." And yes, that's exactly what you all are implying. I think the original post was off-base and posts by Jared, Tom C and others make me sick. Remember people, just because you have money and an education doesn't mean everyone does. I'm unsubscribing from this blog.
Much more productive than this comment thread.
Keith,
Sure, there is a little sympathy...but these people KNEW a category 5 hurricane was coming, had the means to leave, and chose not to. They heard the warnings that the city was going under water, and knew there was going to be total destruction. They had plenty of time to leave, so my sympathy for them is less then someone who had no choice.
btw - I was listening to the Savage Nation tonight, and I must say, as an American, I am truly disappointed in our government's slow reaction, IMO, to this tragedy. I know the public is donating, but god damnit, our government needs to get their ass on the move. These people need help, and I don't need some smug politician smirking on television saying "we are making a heroic effort"
Makes me sick to my stomach.
sorry. End rant
"I was listening to Savage Nation" is not a good way to start a statement that you want anyone to take seriously.
In the last census, there were something like 112,000 households with no transportation. People that were visiting were stranded when the airport closed.
As someone who lived hand-to-mouth for many years after college, I can completely understand why some people couldn't leave. Now that I can afford it, I've made a donation. (Don't forget about corporate matching programs, people! Make your donation count.)
In the end, I don't think it matters where these people are right now, because everything they own, their jobs, their lives have been completely wiped out. The people that were able to get out are just as destitute as the ones who couldn't/wouldn't, so why be so hateful.
Greg, your OC is showing.
I've added a Hurricane Relief button to my page. I'm wondering, is it best to link to the Red Cross website, or to other donation pages? I've followed Airbag's example and pointed it to the Amazon donation page.
There is a question that seems to be asked whenever Katrina is compared to the tsunami: Why did aid show up faster in Indonesia?
Certainly no simplistic answer exists, however I cannot help but wonder if our nations unilateral attitude (read as stubborn independence) might be contribute to the problem.
Where am I getting this crap?
"Asked if there were any other plans to help the United States, the Spokeswoman [Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland] said that the United Nations would like to help in any way possible, but has not been asked to do so by the U.S. Government. If the United States asks for help, she said, the United Nations could dispatch a Disaster Assessment and Coordination Team to the area, as part of its standard response to determine needs." (Source: U.N. News)
For all the times the U.S. has been quick/slow to help others; the international community is willing to help and has the experience to do it. Why not let them?
Note: Before you respond, I know that there are lots of reasons that are contributing to the aid delivery problems, I am just offering one possible facet for discussion.
Isn't this the part where everyone says they aren't going to tune in to the Howard Stern show anymore?
We'll see you back tomorrow... :)
And while you're at it, I would love to hear someone's take on why poor people in the U.S. are poor, other than by choice. I REALLY have to hear this one.
Nathan: I link to Amazon's service because I think it's an easier interface for giving money and there have been several times I have not been able to access the Red Cross website — due to heavy traffic I'm sure.
Scientific American Article from 2001 (via Winer)
http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000
You are severly out of touch with reality. Sure, there were some stick-it-out types who choose to stay and endure the storm. But they were in the MINORITY. 30% of the population of New Orleans lives under the poverty line. These people don't have cars, credit, or reserves of cash to use at a time like this. Those people are the MAJORITY in this case.
This is a failure of our government to react quickly to a natural disaster. Focus your anger towards that, give a little money if you can, and get a clue.
Jared, I'm afraid this modest forum is not the space to deliver you the type of education you clearly need. I'd encourage you to have an open mind, suspend your already cast-in-stone, opinion, and do some research on your own if you're actualy interested in discovery not just dittos. Here are some recommendation of works across the academic and political spectrum — Google or Amazon them: "Poverty in America" by John Iceland, "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich, and "America's Struggle Against Poverty in the Twentieth Century" by James T. Patterson. If you think that there is a secure, living-wage-paying job out there for every American that wants one you're simply in factual error. For you proud conservatives out there — here's nugget: Ronald Reagan, famously, after he left office said, "We fought a war on poverty and poverty won."
BTW, nice lash out from Col. Terry Ebbert, director of homeland security for New Orleans, who yesterday complained vociferously that the whole recovery operation had been "carried on the backs of the little guys for four goddamn days," he said "the rest of the goddamn nation can't get us any resources for security."
"We are like little birds with our mouths open and you don't have to be very smart to know where to drop the worm," Colonel Ebbert said. "It's criminal within the confines of the United States that within one hour of the hurricane they weren't force-feeding us. It's like FEMA has never been to a hurricane."
This is now the real tragedy today, regardless of how or why the victims are there, they're there. Help these people. Now.
I'm writing this comment from Jamaica which was hit by 4 hurricanes ( including cat. 5 Dennis)between this and last year when none had even come close for the previous 16 years, and I always found it strange that John Kerry didn't include/place much stress on his position concerning global warming and other environmental issues when campaigning in hurricane prone states last year .I thought the electorate in these areas would have been ripe for the picking after being pumelled by one hurricane after the other in the season just before the election.
Anti-gay rights vs. complete destruction of one of your most beloved cities.hmm.
Jared: "You are speaking as if rural poverty is a result of oppression. Last time I checked, anyone can go to a public school, get financial aid or a loan, go to college, and live the American dream.
If this were happening in another country where equal opportunity is not widely available, it would be a different story."
Wow, the insular arrogance of Jared's post is stunning. Last time I checked, the US has /lower/ income mobility than most developed nations, especially in Europe. The idea that everyone has equal opportunity to be upper-middle-class, regardless of what they're born into, is largely a middle-class myth that helps surbananites feel superior to lower-class folks, be they urban or rural.
I've watched people try to make the climb from the lower class to upper-middle-class. And some of them are now doctors, lawyers... but for every one of those, there are 100 who had the drive but didn't make it.
The fact is that the biggest indicator of your education and income level is what your parents made. And that's more, not less, true in the US than in other developed countries.
The fact is that the biggest indicator of your education and income level is what your parents made.
I don't know that I agree with that, it's certainly not my experience.
Oh and Tom if/when you comment again please add your last initial or name so as to avoid confusion. I think this is the first time we've had three Tom's in a thread.
"Biggest indicator" is probably the problem with that statement, or at least understanding it — it's just a statistical term. Why would you not assume that from a simple statistical standpoint those who are born into wealth are more likely to have a better education and higher income (two stats that are always linked) than those born to less fortunate circumstances? Sure there are exceptions but across a wide sampling you'd expect this (your parent's income) to be the most consistent stat among the well-educated and high income earners, no?
Have some compassion people.
Yes, it is understandable to be a little miffed with the authorities disaster response, but to be upset with the people who didn't evacuate. That is inexcusable.
Yes, It is a decent comparison to the tsunami. Sure the order of magnitude is much different. But a life is a life and the devastation to the area is great.
Yeah, Katrina is a tragedy; but so were the Maharashtra floods and the earthquake in Sumatra. This hits close to home because it's happening on our continent instead of the mythical land of somewhereelse.
The rest of the world is ready to help, we're just waiting for the call.
If you've ever been stuck in hurricane evacuation traffic, you might know how daunting the idea of sitting in your car while a monster rages towards you seems. And from the accounts I heard on Saturday, New Orleans had a 72 hour evacuation plan in place with only 48 hours to execute it.
Some of those people could have worried that sitting in their car, they'd be stuck on a freeway as the hurricane hit. If they headed to Texas, it could have drifted West and engufled them between New Orleans and Lake Charles. And if they headed East... well, we know exactly what happened in those areas.
I think it's safe to say that just a small percentage of the people stranded in New Orleans were stubborn and stupid for doing so. But your post certainly seems to admonish most of the people who stayed, and even criticize people for living there in the first place. New Orleans will rebuild because it's one of our single most important ports, a fact that the Northeast is now certainly coming to grips with, along with the rest of the country.
what i cant figure out is why i cant stop watching it on tv, it might be the saddest thing i have ever seen. in some cases the very best of humanity and in sharp contrast the worst of humanity.
i am not there and dont imagine to know what they are going through but i try to think about what my first thoughts would be and i am not sure they would be "I should go get a couple boxes of free "Air Jordans". These people could help themselves and others after the storm and instead of getting out of the city or going to find help, they went to the electronics store or the local Footlocker.
i agree w/ you Levy they should have gotten out of there before the storm but what makes me so sad along with the loss of life is the way that some acted after. my prays are with them!
Sure there are exceptions but across a wide sampling you'd expect this (your parent's income) to be the most consistent stat among the well-educated and high income earners, no?
I did not experience this first hand. I was not born into wealth and had to work hard to get myself through school, so I have little patience for samplings and statistics on this subject.
I got that you didn't experience it first hand, and as I said above, for every statistic there is a bell curve and exceptions. The fact that exceptions (like you) exist, doesn't mean you should quesiton the truth or "have little patience" for the overall statistic — it's like saying, "I've smoked all my life and don't have lung cancer, I have little patience for the samplings and statistics that indicate smoking has anything to do with cancer." Your pride in your hard work and accomplishment is well-founded and deserved, but your experience shouldn't necessarily be the sole informant of your perspective.
Does it really matter about why people stayed? The fact is that people did stay whether unable to leave or not. I spent most of the morning reading through the comments, shaking my head at the way some people are viewing this. What's important is that there are people there and they are suffering. On top of that, there are plenty of people that left the area and are suffering now because they have no place to return to.
I sit here and watch the news just as everyone else is, but unlike some of the far removed people who are going "Why didn't they leave?" I sit here and say to myself, "That was my grandfather's hosue." "That was my mother's house", "That was where I went for prom", "That's where I saw the Phantom of the Opera", "That was my life.."
Stop the bickering and just try and put yourself in those people's shoes.
"The fact is that the biggest indicator of your education and income level is what your parents made.
I don't know that I agree with that, it's certainly not my experience."
So you're saying, in your experience, that the education and income level of individuals is not highly correlated with that of your parents? Or just that it's not true for you, individually?
We're talking about a broad phenomena that occurs across the entire population on a multi-generation basis. Hate to say it, but any one person's life path is not a significant data point in this.
Is it obvious that this is true? I tend to think so. But for some reason, people like to make this stupid argument that people who are poor in this country are poor by choice, not by birth. And there's a further myth, which is that it's easier to "bootstrap" in the US, when in fact it's signficantly more difficult vs. similar countries, in part because our healthcare and education systems are so lame versus other western nations.
The phenomena has only been multiplied in recent decades by the flight of the middle-class tax base out of urban areas, reducing tax revenues available to schools. Now, how much you earn as an adult is heavily connected to what zip code you lived in, and hence the quality of your elementary school / high school education.
Lower class tends to stay lower class, and it's not because they enjoy it. And sadly, the divide between lower class and the upper class is continuing to spread.
Greg, I appreciate you being honest about your point of view. But do understand that the majority do not subscribe to this view and I perfectly understand why there were people who did not leave the city, towns when the storm warning was given two full days ahead.
When you are poor, you dont watch television all day long, rather you work or play outside rather than sitting in the dingy indoors.
And when you are poor and lack education, you dont bother when each time there is a hurricane there always seems to be a red blob at the centre and a white-blue swirl around it.
When somebody tells you that they are going to ride out the storm at the SuperDome, you think they are crazy coz there had been storms before and why would anyone be crazy enough to think this one is going to hurt?
When the government knew two days ahead that there was a storm, the government could have done what it would have done when it knew two full days before a H Bomb would be dropped on New Orleans, start emergency procedures, run with vehicles screaming people to evacute, over all streets, put the army, fed agents and force people to evacuate. Hell, Israeli armies managed to evacuate 50% of Gaza in two days - with fierce opposition that too!
People made a wrong judgement, so did the government. And that is my point of view.
The federal government should be taken to task for this debacle. Models predicted this situation was likely. And to think that the government refused funding to improve the situation while Congresspeople voted themselves a fist full of Pork. That is shameful.
I totally disagree with the original post. It reminded me of this article I just read.
the republican, christian right in america
Sep 01, 2005 - Cancun
""(New Orleans, Louisiana):
Repent America says that God "destroyed" New Orleans because of Southern Decadence, the gay festival that was to have taken place in the city over the Labor Day weekend.
"Southern Decadence" has a history of filling the French Quarters section of the city with drunken homosexuals engaging in sex acts in the public streets and bars" Repent America director Michael Marcavage said in a statement Wednesday.
"Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city." Marcavage said. "From ‘Girls Gone Wild’ to ‘Southern Decadence’, New Orleans was a city that had its doors wide open to the public celebration of sin. May it never be the same."
"We must not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," Marcavage said. ""
This totally disgusts me.
What has happened to compassion and empathy? My friend is a nurse in NO and had hurricane duty. She just got evacuated to Baton Rouge. These people need help. Not a bunch of back seat analysts.
What has happened to compassion and empathy?
Oh those were in paragraphs eight and nine, which you passed right over to make your comment.