It's always nice to see good work on the web, but not so much when it's good work turned bad. As is the case with LocalShape, a finely crafted website that apparently came after burning the midnight oil.
I know how hard it is to come up with that design. It took me weeks and how it only took him a few hours... wow! I am in awe.
Please join me in wishing Mykel Nahorniak (aka Captain Asshat) of FinalShape Productions in Reston, Virginia good luck with his new design.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
I'm glad he even took the time to come up with his own post titles. I admire his creative side.
that's how my designs usually i work, i spend days or weeks trying out ideas that don't pan out, then sit down one day and draft something in an hour or two.
These people always seem to get caught because they forget to take out the stolen links as well. It turned up in my referrers this morning.
Is that supposed to be a link to Mykel's email address, because I'm getting sent to the non-existent page http://www.airbagindustries.com/archives/myke@deskmod.com? Just though I'd give you a head-up.
Wow, your fast! Fixed before I got my comment posted.
Oh, and I wanted to say, while it could be argued that some people who do this may just be doing so for testing purposes (which is no excuse, it still shouldn't be live). However, this guy is obviously claiming it all as his own work.
Jason>>> That's not because he forgot to take out the stolen links, but rather that he linked to your entry. This man is obviously a professional, and understands the meaning of stealth.
Too bad his comments don't work.
If he's going to steal your design, he should at least have the decency to leave it alone. My eyes are burning after seeing what he did to your layout.
Why do this? Why? I just don't get it.
I really like the "Webfinds" sidebar, complete with tree and Optima. You're hula girl really sucks Greg.
Simply amazing.
Ha! What an idiot. Way to go, Mykel! Anyway, I was looking around his site trying to see if I could get to other pages manually and came across this http://localshape.com/?pid=1.
Hopefully someone can put this to "good use" since I tried posting an article but it didn't show up.
I can see why he needed to redesign his blog. Check out his old one. AIM is iaremyke.
The Fluer del lis (sp?) is a nice, crafty touch. So inventive. Oh, and I love the "filler" photo on the left. Tsumani support is so passe.
Its truely infurating seeing these "rip-offs", even worse when he specifically claims it as his own original design.
I find it unbelievable someone can do this and claim it's there's.
... I just noticed... You stole his design Greg... Shame on you.
Kyle: he did actually take the link from Greg's sidebar while he was under the hood. It is possible that he just happened to link to it as well, though highly improbable given the greater offense.
You too now, huh. This stuff is just sick. Try contacting their host. It's worked in the past for me.
Gotta love the picture on the left hand column. What a tard.
Who cares? That guy is a tool anyway. Bad artists borrow, real artists steal.
I like that his page uses "table layout"... Css is so last season this spring...
I like the way that, rather than do it the easy way and save off your standards-based XHTML and CSS and just change the names, he's actually converted it into an HTML table-based layout. A design thief that likes to make work for himself...
:) He's not a thief! He came up with that simple design himself! :)
too bad he didn't just link your style sheets similar to the way the @55-hat did to phonophunk news - http://phonophunk.phreakin.com/news/?p=40
that was hilarious justice.
these people are so infuriating. stealing it is one thing. PROCLAIMING his originality in the [stolen] design is super retarded. Stealing the titles is amazing.
he seems to like Jason's work too from the link to his photography. He should see this thread soon enough I'm sure.
Wonder if he'll accuse you Greg! lol
This has got to be a joke.
He'll never be able to show his face around the Web design community again (not that it would a great loss)...
LocalShape? GlobalThief!
Despite our wide and varied differences in opinion regarding the logo contest, I think we can all be in agreement that this turdball is not a designer.
I love tables, why don't you convert your site to look more like that Greg? WHOIS lookups are fun, try one at GoDaddy.
One thing that puzzles me is that his post which introduces his fabulous design is dated January 17, 2005, but the little graphic at the bottom of the page (which, by the way, has a snowflake and not a california bear – I guess he's from somewhere colder...) has the 01.01.2004 in grey.
Other than that I don't really know what to think. It's just wrong on so many levels.
The 01.01.2004 at Mykel's site might have some relationship to the 01.01.2004 in the CA Flag image at the bottom of this page. Maybe.
I think it just went offline
anynoe get a screen capture?
Had it cached, so I have if no one else does...
The old Ray
Looks like I came to the party a bit late. He now has a "Sigh. Starting Over" message. Did anyone manage a screen shot or can I assume it was an exact rip.
Wow, I was found out pretty quickly!
I guess I'd better explain myself, although I know it won't do much good. Also, if you guys could inform me of how you found out (just for informational purposes), that would be neat.
Stumbling upon this site, I really enjoyed the simplicity of the design. When I viewed the source, it said it was taken from a blog layout (or somesuch thing), so I figured it would be okay to use this as a template, as it was taken from one as well. I suppose I was wrong.
All the images I created were indeed from scratch (sparing that little block at the bottom). One could say they were "inspired (albeit too much) by airbagindustries".
Now the big question: Why? Well, I DO infact design sites on my own without "stealing" them (can you believe it?!). I think they look pretty good and hopefully you guys have the hearts to not demean those as well. If you look for long enough, I'm sure you'll find them, although only 1 is live. I'm new. Anyway, I got "designer's block" and had absolutely no motivation. I had good leads going, but I never could get down to just slicing it and going from there. This site sparked the motivation to slice.
The good news is, I have taken it down and I will re-do it tonight on my own and hopefully it will start to develop nicely.
The bad news is I am now exiled from the design community.
Sorry Greg. I really am.
Also, that e-mail does not work, so you can remove it. I believe Greg knows my real e-mail, as I sent him a message a while ago.
Greg, feel free to e-mail me. I'd like to straighten things out between us.
Sorry again.
"Sigh. Starting over."
oh. His life is so tough. Got caught stealing once. now gotta go look for something else to post as an original Mykel production.
man, THINK. make your own crap up (for real, not a rip-off you credit yourself for) for crying out loud! at least it's your crap, for better or worse...
How's the new one?
"Extremely motivated to create" and "...had absolutely no motivation"
hmmm.
the thing is mykel, your text alluded a little too much to the design being YOUR brainchild. you not only ripped it off (big time), but you misled (to be polite) any readers about the origination of the design.
my sites may be lame designs in others' eyes, but at least they're mine.
"I got "designer's block" and had absolutely no motivation."
We all get that, but we don't swipe other people's work to get over it. Part of being a designer is working through these block.
"absolutely no motivation"
Perhaps you're in the wrong business. All designers get into ruts, have trouble finding new stuff, but still. If your answer is to slap up some other guy's work...
Also "a blog layout (or somesuch thing)"?? Hopefull, as a web designer you know what a blog is, right?
Mykel-
First, thanks for having the balls to post here. Most wouldn't have.
Second, I think the thing that was most offense about this was that you went on about how you just have that "need to create." -- but you didn't.
If you weren't a web designer yourself (as you claim to be), I might believe that you were misled by Greg's source code message. However, one part of that message seems very clear to me: " Pirates, thieves, and mouth breathers: you'd do good to stay away from the treasure below."
Yes, you created most of your own images. But your images are basically ripoffs, too. If I drew the Mona Lisa again, would it be my art? You used the same colors, same themes, and same overall imagery as Greg. You used a bird instead of a blimp. Does that really make it your idea?
You'd probably be better off to just apologize, admit you stole it, and go prove that you can do something just as good on your own than to come here and try to defend yourself.
As for how people found out: does it matter? Even if no one used any technical means to find out, people would have found out. You ripped off one of the most popular blogs on the Internet, and certainly in the design community. This site has a unique look and feel to it, which is undoubtedly why you liked it to begin with. But, as such, it's very memorable and recognizable. Next time you decide to rip someone off, pick someone a bit more obscure (hell, pick me -- I've never been ripped!).
Really, just admit you f'd up and move on. Defending yourself is going to be fruitless. As Greg would say: don't be an asshat.
You want to know how you were found out, Mykel? Because you stole someone's design. It doesn't matter what community you are talking about: when you steal something that is publicly used and available for all to see, SOMEONE WILL NOTICE. The web isn't private. When you put something online, it is there for the world to see. Cover your ass however you like, but I hope for your sake, and for whatever future clientele you hope to have, you rub together whatever common sense you have and create something you can honestly call your own. Because no one with money is going to respect, or pay you. If that's asking too much, you might as well run out and buy a mop bucket now to start your training.
Pfft... damn, I missed all the fun. Nick, thank you for highlighting those two quotes. They stuck out in my mind as I read his post here, it was just too funny. "I get to start over"... Wow, what a reprehensible way to leave your site. I think the text would read more accurately like this: "I was appropriately highlighted and denounced by the community as a fraud, hitherto unknown aside from my (IMO) stellar AngelFire and GeoCities homepages. My triumphant return to the web design forefront will be shortcoming - just as soon as I can find something else to rip off... err, inspire me". One day you'll understand that ripping people off may seem easy at first, but in the end you're shortchanging yourself and the community you claim to be involved with.
Yeah and all 2,000 of my previous designs were mine as well. Can't I get a get out of jail free card or something? The site's been up for a week at most and now its down. I apologized. What else would you like?
Okay, keep on repeating yourself guys. I know what I did wrong! The site is down. I apologized for the... 4th time now. I DEFINITELY learned my lesson.
And no, I'm not one of those kids that goes and rips new sites every day. This was my first "rip" and I genuinely made an attempt to make it my own. If I said I was thinking about ditching it anyway, that would just be heard by deaf ears, so I won't.
Anyway. I screwed up. I'll say it again: I screwed up.
Mykel-
I accept your apology (of course, that doesn't mean much -- it's Greg that matters here). Now, stop wasting your time here and go prove to everyone that you can make a great design on your own.
Jeff,
Thank you... and I was apologizing to the entire design community for my error.
I'll be sending Greg an e-mail in a couple weeks with my new design. Hopefully he'll post it here. If not, well, you know where to find me.
The key is using a site you like as inspiration, but 1) making sure you adapt it to make it your own and 2) giving credit where credit is due. Airbag Industries is the inspiration behind my site. I acknowledge that on my About page. I love the use of white space and the way the graphic breaks across the page vertically. But I tried to adapt the design so that it reflected my own style and interests instead of Greg's. It's not as nice as Airbag Industries, but I built it with my own two hands and that's something I'm proud of.
We'll be watching.... Well. Probably not. I probably won't remember this.
Who needs design police when we have mob rule this benign and effective?
Is ripping off a high profile design blogger's site the latest greatest PR stunt for the young punk-ass designer who wants to get noticed? Other thieves have claimed this to be their sole motivation. Is a spike in traffic worth the negative press?
Maybe I should go rip Will and tap into all that trek geek traffic action. Oh yeah that's where the big pay-off is!
oops I spelled his name with two Ls.
"Yeah and all 2,000 of my previous designs were mine as well."
Two Thousand? DANG! That comes out to what... about 6 years of one design per day? MAN with 6 years under your belt, and the fact that you're just NOW getting writer's block, you should've known better. I'm surprised you couldn't blaze through the designers block (er, no motivation) if you've done 2,000 designs.
;)
I take it he stole Greg's layout. Well, that's bound to happen when the public has access to a damn fine design. Take it as a compliment. And take pride in the fact that it took weeks to create something so fine, and him hours of wasted time to pretty much make a fool out of himself. Bahehe.
This has gone from bad to worse in a disturbing way. And the really sad thing is the recipient is fueling the fire all by his lonesome. Maybe we should just take the matches and the lighter fluid away from the situation.
Mykel, take it from someone who has learned allot of hard lessons in his 43 years. If you walk away from this having learned only one thing it should be "learn when to keep your yap shut"... especially when it's so obvious you are at fault. Take the lumps and remember the moment.
Mykel: Badly and stupidly executed ripoff. You have apologized, now be quiet.
Everyone else: There's no way of know if Mykel's sincere or not. It is time to let it go.
What happened to the Open Source mentality?
'bye, Mykel!
is-
You're not serious, are you?
This is in no way a defense for Mykel, but it was my previous belief (I may be wrong!) that the legality of copyright and intellectual property only extended to the original source. For instance I could develop my own version of Microsoft Word, as long as the code was unique. It could look exactly like Microsoft Word as long as it was devoid of MS graphics and not purporting to by MS Word itself.
Now, the site was taken down before I had an opportunity to look for myself, but someone mentioned that he took the extra time to convert the site back to a table layout (huh?). So the question is: Would this not constitute enough of a coding change, assuming my above statement is correct?
dag - you guys are HARSH.
you treat this guy like he just punched all of your mothers in the face.
I think he's learned his lesson ... now wait and see what he can do legitimately. I, for one, want to see if he has any legitimate talent :-P.
Dan-
You may well be right about copyright law (I'm not sure). but, that's not really the point. no one here has accused Mykel of breaking the law (that I've seen). People have simple accused him of ripping off this site's design and a lack of creativity.
I guess it depends on where you're at morally whether you think this is wrong or not. My feeling is that's it's wrong to rip off another designer, even if you do it within the confines of the law. In fact, there are a lot of things I think are wrong that are legal. The law it's my only moral boundary, I guess.
Hey Jeff, I think is... is him.
Dan. Following your logic... do you think it would be acceptable if someone took the Coca-Cola logo and redesigned it with Lego blocks then called it their own logo/brand/design/creation. Sure they built it with Lego blocks like no one before them but is it really their own creation. Or, how about lifting someone’s idea to build left handed widgets out of black and red plastic and then building your own "left handed widgets" out of blue and orange plastic. Did you create something new and wonderful all on your own or did you ... (cough) borrow the design from someone else?
This is shaping up to be a far more interesting discussion than the silliness of little Mykel. Poor little Mykel. He's soooo young and foolhardy and we're soooo HARSH. Gaaawd
@Dan: Pretty sure your wrong about 'the source' being the copyrighted material.
Of course a design can be copyright, and Mykel's design was a blatant infringment of Greg's. There is absolutely no question about that.
If Mykel was a registered company/business using that as it's home page, then Greg would surely have taken this further. But it turns out he's just a kid with no imagination or real passion for design. So we'll just leave him to it I guess.
How about some slashdot-esque moderation?
"it turns out he's just a kid with no imagination or real passion for design". I'm not sure what bothers me more: "kids with no passion for design" or pedantic designers, talented or not.
I also think some here might be thinking too high of XHTML / CSS design, which, really, is just a matter of simple (and trainable) skills plus some insight into pop-culture. Apart from a logo here, a bulleted list there, most of blogs look similar (as they rely on the same apps, which finally are the ones actually designing the site), just as Flash once spawned so many look-alikes and a whole aesthetics with it. The guys behind MovableType, or Flash itself, now that's talent!
I think XHTM/CSS is great technology (because it's simple and extensible). I don't get why some here brag so much about their skills with something that was intended to be simple and standardized. That is not to say that post here aren't extremely funny and well written., which they are.
You know, there's nothing special about oil paints either.
My point exactly. Maybe the very concept of "talent" is a bit passé, or it belongs in a romantic mentality where the idea of author still has some sense, author being the one that makes a piece (as in "masterpiece"), a unique piece of meaning and in itself original. That can hardly be said of any web product. I prefer to see the web as a big bunch of interlinked documents, where the author and the individual "talent" (whatever that is) dilute into the multiple readings you can get from your browsing.
"My point exactly. Maybe the very concept of "talent" is a bit passé, or it belongs in a romantic mentality where the........"
Auuugh... right.
So Greg. Have you and your significant other picked out paint colors for the new abode in Glendale? I hear Behr makes a nice product and has a great selection of colors.
is, not everything looks the same. Even if it did that would still be a non-issue because the graphics and color schemes are all unique. The code is unique and no matter what you like to think all blogs are not powered by moveable type, wordpress, or textpattern. Some people write their own software. I happen to be one of those people. Don't generalize.
Ray, copying the logo of a company is infringing on a trademark no matter what medium it is rendered in. However, if you came up with a similar trademark of your own it may be allowed. You only need to change like 50% of something to be able to hold copyright on it.
Your analogy was nothing like what Dan was talking about. Dan was talking about appropriation. As far as I know, appropriation is perfectly legal.
Mykel, trying to turn this into a PR stunt? Why would Greg possibly post your next design? He might link to you with the link text being something like remember that asshat who stole my design? That's about the best you'll get...
is-
Your comments seem pretty trollish to me. However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, assume they were sincere, and give you a sincere response in return.
By your logic, all newspapers look the same. A photo here, a column there, that's about it. All magazines, too. Oh, and definitely all books. Basically, all of graphic design. A typeface choice here, a color scheme there. That's about it, right?
If you really believe that, then you aren't very educated about what it means to be a designer. Which is fine -- many people aren't. Suffice it to say that there's a lot more to coming up with a design of any type than that.
You say all blogs look the same. To some degree, you are correct. But, all have subtle differences, and ripping off those subtle differences is definitely not kosher in my book. But the fact remains -- blogs don't look any more "the same" than do newspapers, magazines, or books. Design finds it way to accepted standards because they've been proven to work well.
As for you earlier remark about the "open-source mentality": I'm not really sure I've ever known a designer who put his/her designs out there as open source projects, per se. Design is not software. Not even web design (even though there is code involved). Anyway, the point is -- I don't think the "open source mentality" was ever here -- so it hasn't exactly disappeared.
Ray: I've always found very funny that way of making fun of people by not committing to say anything valuable. Your "is this original/is this ripping" Lego analogy was strikingly thought-provoking and not at all cliché.
Joe, that's why I said most of blogs. I find it very interesting when people attemp to build their own software because they take into account the plattform as part of the content. (why else would they, with all the fine CMS's around).
I'm not against CMS' per se, I hope that's clear. I just wanted to point out that I don't get all the rage about copied web design, as if the blog-oriented content structure in most blogs (a given in these apps) was such a terribly original information design, which is as important as visual design. I hope I'm not annoying light-hearted Ray too much, I just wanted to make a point, "more interesting discussion" wise.
Jeff, I'm new to the term "trollish" ( I just read about it in some other blog). As I understood a troll in a person that writes dissenting posts to gain stuff that I didn't get. Please believe me that I was expressing an honest opinion this discussion made me think of. I am new here and I don't want to break whatever tacit consensus you'd prefer to keep for whatever reason. I also must apologize for my English, which is not my first language and might make my posts sound unpolite. This doesn't count Ray, as I don't think he was looking for politeness.
I might not have a designer's education ( I know it's fine, no need to assert it), although I find that a rather easy way to dismiss my points. I came to web developing from the field of visual arts and work in web development/design since 2000. I hope that helps you categorize my position on the subject.
I understand your points on print design, magazines and such. I think this and other blogs are visually very appealing, but I think they might take for granted other parts of what it is to have information on the web. In that respect I really like what LukeW of Functional Form is doing with his blog (his small experiments on semantically linking entries, etc). Nothing fancy, but to me those little artifacts speak more of Web Design than a div here and there or a nice color pallette, which to me are related to the analogue world of print.
Came in late to the party. Won't even touch is's comments with a 10-foot pole.
Anyone got a screengrab?
This idea that you need to see the source in order for copying without permission to be ok is somewhat naive-sounding.
Almost anyone who can play any instrument can play "Happy Birthday To You" without ever seeing the notes written out. But, someone owns the copyright to that song, and it's performance requires royalty payments. Ever notice that when all the wait staff at those friendly neighborhood chain restaurants gather together to squawk out birthday wishes to a patron, they sing some other concoction?
[Sorry for another music analogy.]
Did anyone manage to screen grab it?
A screen grab, pls?
Try Google's Cache, but there might be a better one somewhere else.
There is a screen grab knocking about, and I know Greg has a copy. Maybe we should wait and see what he want's to do with it though - just out of courtesy. :) He may not want to enflame this anymore.
I'd like to have a screen grab, too. Google's Cache doesn't give a good impression, because there aren't any pictures or css...
copying the logo of a company is infringing on a trademark no matter what medium it is rendered in. However, if you came up with a similar trademark of your own it may be allowed. You only need to change like 50% of something to be able to hold copyright on it.
@Joe Clay. That's what I was trying to say (although not very well). It doesn't matter what medium the piece is rendered in. A copy is a copy. The Coca-Cola logo will always be the Coca-Cola logo regardless of the medium it’s rendered in. Making a slight alteration with color palette or building it with lego doesn't change the fact that it's still the Coca-Cola logo.
Also, just because someone changes the underlying structure of a site but leaves all the design elements intact doesn't mean it's not a rip off. The design is the design. How it's put together (tables vs CSS) is something else. Grabbing someone’s source code is a completely different conversation IMO. Anyway, I believe we are singing from the same song book. All’s good 8 )
I didn't take "appropriation" from Dan's post. If that's what you meant Dan... my bad.
is... I'm with Jeff.
oh how good is it to see people getting caught? :)
and how annoying is it to see people that steal, and keep on stealing.
like this guy, whose blog is a rip off of this one, and he keeps on denying it.
how about his newest project? looks similar to something...
hint/link
is,
I tried sending you a email but it came back as address unknown. I don't mean to sound impolite here but I'm not surprised.
This comment thread needs to be closed.
As someone well-spoken once said, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Aren't the Airbag photos and the State of California star-bear logo appropriated? Was the photographer or the rights-holder of the photographic work compensated or acknowledged? Is well-executed appropriation any better than poorly executed appropriation? Does it matter if it's "transformative use" (legally it does, but it's a pretty slippery slope, and we're talking ethically not morally here).
@Devilangel: Yes, those sites are vaguely similar in layout and feeling. If you'd linked to your site I'm sure I could find something vaguely similar to that on the web.
I'm not looking at the code, but I don't think either of those designs would be classed as copyright infringement. Did you see Mykel's rip? Then you'd know what we're talking about. :)
Ray, you're right. That's the email I use for public postings and hotmail closed it for lack of use. Here's another. sorry.
Rick Fletcher,
Can you not e-mail my mother's workplace, please? Thank you. That is just uncalled for, regardless of the circumstances.
Greg, get back here and sort this mess out!
Ooooh boy.
Enough is enough. I liked the direction the thread was kinda starting to take with the copyright discussion but... time to shut 'er down. This has gone too far.
It would be nice to continue the copyright/web/print/ discussion elsewhere. Without any finger pointing.
Mykel,
Sorry. I saw a post on your site that said (paraphrasing) "I've been hired to design this PR firm's site." I felt they should know that the designer they hired was capable of some pretty blatant theft.
Had I known it was your family's business, I would definitely not have filled out their contact form. But, you left that out.
Greg, get back here and sort this mess out!
Yeah, it's been fun for a day but enough is enough. The point of this was to make a public mockery out of Mykel who dubs himself a 'designer'. Mission accomplished.
Look, being a designer takes a lot more effort than just coming up with a nice seagull image to block out the original artwork. And to those of us who do design, anyone who comes along and borrows our work is theft pure and simple.
I don't get where this notion of open source design came from — It's a load of crap. Anyone who can't understand this needs to stop wasting brain cells and focus on breathing through the mouth.
This morning people some people died on their way to earn money to pay for mortgages that they probably didn't want in the first place. Life is too important to waste it trying to understand design and how it relates to intellectual property law. It's time for us all to push away from the blogs and go do something with someone we love.