Can anyone tell me why a software company, no matter the size, would require users to join a mailing list (that generates a ton of unwanted email and spam) to receive basic customer service? Doesn't that sound like a really, really bad idea? Remember when everyone was complaining about having to talk to someone in Asia to receive customer support? At this point I would love to talk to anyone, even in French if it meant I could get some assistance with MarsEdit.
Every time I try to retrieve old posts I get this descriptive error message:
Can’t get recent posts for Airbag because Unknown fault.
Unknown fault? What the hell is that? Unknown could be anything. Maybe MarsEdit is having problem working with Earth gravitational field. Or could it be that with the holidays upon us the program is simply to emotional and depressed to perform that task adequately? Since it doesn't know what's wrong I'll go ahead and give this error a name befitting the problem: Error # 349: Dog Houses Eat Pancakes.
Now I'm ok with software that doesn't work with just a few clicks because not everything is that simple. And I can appreciate the labor it takes to make software — mostly because I get punch-drunk-stupid when I have to look at anything beyond HTML — but I don't like the thought of having to join a mailing list to get support for software that I paid good money for.
That's like Maytag telling me I have to join a twelve step program to find out why the washer doesn't like colors mixed with whites.
Join the fray by reading through and commenting at the end.
Have you tried ecto?
You aren't in the Maytag 12 step program? Wow, you're good.
Randy, no I go every week but only for the punch and cookies.
Definitely try ecto if you haven't yet. More features, works like a champ with just about any blogging/cms software out there. I use it for managing my site and it's been fantastic -- and no mailing lists, a very responsive and helpful developer and decent support forums. Nuff said.
Agreed on the support issue. Mailing lists should be for free software. But I'm wondering why one needs a "weblog editor" in addition to a CMS?
Josh, because writing in a browser window is an accident waiting to happen. :-) Also, not all blogging software have refined UIs. In fact, almost none do.
You're not the first person I've heard complain about this in the last few days, and you all complained really loudly and angrily. I know Brent loves mailing lists, but you should definitely post something about this to the MarsEdit list.
Perhaps he's not heard any complaints yet. I'm sure this is just a difference of opinion. He probably thinks mailing lists are the best support method, you don't. Tell him, he's a nice guy.
They were both very responsive and friendly when I lost my registration code and emailed and asked them to send it to me again. I'm sure he'd be willing to consider your thoughts. Also, if you're on the lists he runs, you'll notice that he's very active in them, usually answering most of the questions himself.
Who needs mailing lists when we have RSS yay!
I heart soapbox rants.
And Weblogs too!
ecto is indeed nice. And, as an added bonus, a holiday special -- lasting until the 26th of this month -- knocks 30% of its regular price.
"unknown error" mean that you have such a weird error, that the developers and all the beta testers didn't get, wich mean, in one word - you'r a weirdow! yeah!
and then you want support. But the support, even if you'll talk to the chief of development at his office, won't help you, because he "unknown" doesn't mean that the software don't know the error (oh, it knows allright!) but that the person you are speaking with won'y help you. so, you remain a weirdow.
I really like your blog, you'r cool!
...you should definitely post something about this to the MarsEdit list.
I'll send a Candy-Gram before I join a mailing list. That's just asking for bad mojo.
I've always found these types of apps to be a bit rickety; it almost feels like there's something about the Cocoa development environment that makes pumping these apps out easier than they should be. Honesly, if I used one of these apps I would be in constant fear of it eating my MT database like a grilled cheese sandwich.
Even if the backend is MySQL? Last thing I want is another repeat of Black Thanksgiving.
Ecto is a much better app. No kidding. Actually, I've been using it in demo mode, but with the 30% off as one of the above posters mentioned, I'm going to pay up.
Even if the backend is MySQL? Last thing I want is another repeat of Black Thanksgiving.
MySQL, SchmySQL. A database is a database. While its unlikely that MarsEdit would munch your blog, it wouldn't surprise me if it did. I'm kinda superstitious about these things.
You can send email to info@ranchero.com to get help with MarsEdit. You don't have to join a mailing list. I apologize for not making that clear.
We like it when people join a mailing list, because they can often get help faster that way -- other MarsEdit users often know the answers to questions too. But joining a mailing list is not a requirement.
Anyway, to deal with the problem at hand...
Here's what to do:
1. Click Refresh.
2. Assuming the error still happens, open the XML-RPC Console via the Window menu.
3. Click the Save to File button, save the file, then send it to me via email (to brent at ranchero dot com).
I did join the MarsEdit mailing list a couple weeks ago. I'm on several support mailing lists, and frankly, MarsEdit's is the best I've seen. Very low message count. Well educated members. Brent himself replies what seems like within 24 hours -- usually faster.
They got my $25.
(Not to mention, I didn't complain how bad something was BEFORE I tried it).
I do wish he would post archives of the mailing list somewhere. But he's said he is considering just that.
Not to mention, I didn't complain how bad something was BEFORE I tried it
Sorry Patrick, I don't need to try another mailing list to know they suck, especially for customer support.
What's wrong with using "Report a bug" from the Help menu?
That would seem to be a built-in way to get a response.
Greg,
I can certainly relate to the feelings of frustration that you've hit up against trying to use MarsEdit. I've definitely experienced that with a number of applications where, for no explicable reason, the damn thing just won't do what I want it to even though it seems full well like it should.
I do wonder, however, what steps you took to remedy the situation, as far as seeking out help and why you came to the conclusion that you had to join a mailing list to get support. When I went to the Ranchero MarsEdit page, I noticed rather quickly the "Help and Support" section.
In that section, the mailing list is mentioned, but so is an email address. If you tried writing to info@... did you get a response? If you didn't send an email, why didn't you?
I guess it seems to me, that before you go bashing someone else's product that you exhaust all accessible means to right the problem before going public with your complaint. I mean, you're free to vent all you want on your own blog, but in my mind, you lose credibility when a perfectly good solution does exist but simply was overlooked or ignored.
So I do appreciate your right and ability to express your frustrations to the world, but when you do so at the expense of someone else who would have been willing to help you solve your problem, you slight their reputation and potentially damage their business. And God kills a little kitten.
I hope you're happy now.
Chris kinda hit it on the head. I have used two apps now from Ranchero and they have been very helpful and prompt in replying. If you didn't get an email back from Brent, that is a rare occurance. Sure I happen to be on a mail list (or two) of his... and what amazes me is his commitment to replying to everyone... even the most minute detail does not go unaddressed. Something we could all be insprired by...
...before you go bashing someone else's product you exhaust all accessible means to right the problem before going public with your complaint.
I'm sorry, at what point did I bash the product? Did you even read what I wrote? And yes the email address is now listed under Help and Support but it wasn't there yesterday.
So I do appreciate your right and ability to express your frustrations to the world...
I'm glad you appreciate my right, I do too. God bless the First Admendment.
I hope you're happy now.
Are you the president of the MarsEdit fan club or what? Damn dude, get a hold of yourself. Better yet, go away.
Greg,
I think the point here is that you say: "[...] require users to join a mailing list [...] to receive basic customer service".
You put this as a fact, however it's simply wrong.
It is very easy to get in touch with Ranchero via email, they are very friendly and helpful and they usually reply fast. That's my experience, at least.
Trouble is, if one reads your post without reading the comments, notably the one left by Brent Simmons himself, they can get out with a false idea of Brent's products and support quality. You do not need to join a mailing list to get support, you can send an email to Brent or use "Report a bug" in the Help menu of the application. In my own experience, he's very responsive and I would be surprised if he doesn't help you solve the problem you have with MarsEdit. If it's not done yet (have you tried to contact him?)
MySQL, SchmySQL. A database is a database. While its unlikely that MarsEdit would munch your blog, it wouldn't surprise me if it did. I'm kinda superstitious about these things.
Superstitious indeed! Blog editors don't directly manipulate the database. They make changes through the XML-RPC interfaces supplied by the blog software. So unless that's implemented incorrectly, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. If you can't trust your blog software, then you have worse underlying problems. You can generally even witness what commands they are sending by looking at the XML-RPC console.
Being superstitious with computers reminds me of my roommate in college who was afraid to change his wallpaper (Win machine) because he was afraid it would corrupt his computer.
Trouble is, if one reads your post without reading the comments...
You're new here aren't you. Thankfully not many people read Airbag without reading the comments. It's like half the experience, or so I'm told by many.
"I'm sorry, at what point did I bash the product?"
Well, you didn't bash per se, but you *did* make it personal by singling out MarsEdit instead of writing a *general* entry about how mailing lists are bad for support.
I know it's really frustrating dealing with software that doesn't seem to work when it should -- I had a similar problem with an iPod-related app, but ultimately I swallowed my pride and realized that the author was doing his best to try and help me and that these problems were, in fact, transient. It doesn't deserve a semi-permanent post on internet that might influence other buyers or affect the reputation of an author.
Clearly you scanned, because you were frustrated: "Report a bug" is under the Help menu in the application. Reading his page gives you a direct email address to send info to (at the bottom, I know the other link to the same address in the sidebar was added for clarity recently).
Please just admit that you may have been rash to single out Ranchero's support without taking the time to read things completely and be done with this thread. You can get past this without backing down on your stance against mailing lists for support (I hate them too, hell, I've even had to use software that used USENET for support, but I don't name names.)
And going a bit off-topic:
"Thankfully not many people read Airbag without reading the comments."
I would love to see your data that supports this attitude. I have a report that says only 16% of web users fully read pages word-for-word. You can be guaranteed that you have visitors that don't read the comments and *don't tell you about it.*
Not that Greg needs a defender, but I wouldn't consider an email address or a mailing list as adequate support for a product or services for sale. Both these support vehicles involve rocketing a message through cyberspace with no confirmation of receipt and are notorious for being ignored or abused. For free software, I could understand a low-tech support solution like a mailing list, but for paying customers there should be a phone number, support ticket system, or at least a message board/community support effort. Mailing lists are so 1998.
Please just admit that you may have been rash to single out Ranchero's support without taking the time to read things completely and be done with this thread.
Single out? This is the first company i've come across that provides suppor this manner. And where do you get off telling me to admit I've been rash on my own personal site?
"because writing in a browser window is an accident waiting to happen."
And why is that?
This is off-topic, but in case you weren't aware, Greg, all of your pages linked from the top left navigation - archive, about, contact, reading, desktops, and ipod tattoo - have all been hacked.
Yeah, you have been hit by this worm described on slashdot. You can read more about it there.
Please just admit that you may have been rash to single out Ranchero's support without taking the time to read things completely and be done with this thread.
Don't you think you've pointed that out enough for everyone?
Some people, when faced with a problem, think "I know, i'll join the mailinglist". Now they have two problems, and more spam.
Greg,
Funny -- I came back just because of that paragraph. It was too judgmental and I only meant that you should consider the possibility. I apologize. Still...
"At this point I would love to talk to anyone, even in French if it meant I could get some assistance..."
A comment like that, to me, still sounds hasty at best.
Tony,
Ah, touché. :)
I guess I don't get it. Greg, you're complaining that Ranchero has a list-only support system, Brent Simmons apologetically points out that's not true, and yet you're still saying that Ranchero "is the first company I've come across that provides suppor this manner"?
Would it kill you to add an update line in the blog entry that says that Ranchero doesn't require anyone to join a list for help, but that they don't make their direct e-mail support address as obvious as they should? You could even pat yourself on the back and point out that as a result of your post, Ranchero's pointers to info@ranchero.com are more explicit than they were before. You look good, Ranchero looks responsive, the main blog entry is no longer incorrect... everybody wins, right?
Just let Greg whine. He doesn't have to cater to individuals with transient qualities like "reason" and "reading skills." This is his personal site, after all, and no amount of logic can force him to agree with you who find his methods unsatisfactory. Clearly, if you plan to argue from a divergent perspective, your comments are not welcome -- so don't bother.
Colin...
Can you hear websites? I don't have the SoundBlaster Whiner Pro installed on my computer, so I guess I don't get the true meaning of posts like you do.
Email support is fine for freeware, shareware, etc. I'm sure Brent is quite good with answering everyone's questions, but what if he's sick, or on vacation, or just really busy? What happens?
Oh, and that first paragraph should be read with "Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men" kind of sound. If it doesn't sound like that, kindly send an email to support@soundblaster.com... I'm sure they'll get back to you promptly.
Colin (or are you Cowan?) I don't know why you bother reading this website. You made it clear that you don't like my writing or tenacity back in September. Are you that bored that you can't find something else to do in upstate New York?
Yegods man/woman/cowan go find another hobby. Asshat.